Community Planning & Transportation Committee, 12/28/23

okay we are on air and it is 4 o' um other council members may arrive here shortly but we'll go ahead and get started um good afternoon and welcome to the community planning and transportation committee meeting for the uh Thursday December 28th 2023 our last one of the year last City meeting of the year maybe maybe there's one tomorrow I'm not sure but not for us and so last council meeting that I know of this year so um we've got three items on the agenda um and our first item as usual is our public transit report and discussion um and just those for those of you that might not have watched before in this committee every month we get an update from City staff about the public transit system um about writers ship numbers and projects that are ongoing funding all sorts of stuff so if you have any questions comments um concerns anything about Transit related issues uh let any of us on the council know um or contact City staff and we will be happy to discuss those in this committee um so we have Taylor here and we'll go ahead and get going thank you Council and uh happy holidays good afternoon glad to be here to give you another update uh like every month um on the memo uh happy to say it's a little smaller this month we took out the transit center uh paragraph or a few bullets that we had in there cuz that project is done we're operating in it so you may have noticed that it's been shortened up a little bit but we've kept our Fleet Maintenance and vehicle procurement uh section in there just keeping you updated on ongoing orders of vehicles that we made using uh either Grant funds uh Andor local funds that you all have authorized uh we're starting to get a few more vehicles in that we've ordered uh some Paratransit Vans some uh smaller units uh Ford transits that will be used and our PA Transit Fleet so we hope to have all those in the next couple months uh we're continuing to monitor the new route network uh it seems to be uh functioning fairly well given the the ridership uh we had a few complaints early on but uh those seem to have dissipated for the most part but we'll happily continue to take those and monitor any changes we can make uh and obviously we have a few outstanding items with that going ongoing that we're we're talking about uh for ridership for November uh we had just about 5,000 more people ride than last November uh the average total daily ridership for the for November was about 1,300 and that's about a 19% increase over last November so again uh still uh pretty good gain there over last November kind of expect a little bit of a dip as you make such a significant change but really the numbers are showing that we're continuing to move steadily upward and for the whole year to date we have about 50,000 more Riders than we did last year so we're we're cruising pretty well I think um it you know that we're only 5 months in on this and uh I think we're going to surpass easily un unless something happens we we couldn't predict Co right but unless something happens we should surpass last year's numbers easily which I'm I'm very excited about and that was about 330,000 for the entire system so when we're at 172 right now um I just wanted to mention ridership per service hour real quick for the fixed route it's on the the second page of that uh performance report for the for the fix route is about 18 uh so that means on average any given service hour we're out there operating on any bus we have about 18 people um riding you know some buses could have 36 some could have uh you know way less than that but on average it's about 18 19 and then on fixed route we have each bus I'm sorry 18 on average each route right per service hour so it's a little bit different than per bus because but for the most part yeah yeah like Lindsay East we have two buses operating uh right to give it 30 minute service so there's two buses technically on that route per hour uh but in general and then on Saturdays uh the average uh the ridership for service hour is 13 and it's seen about a 50 45% increase over over last November in the ridership uh for the entire month so smaller number it's about you know 2300 people on a Saturday for The Saturdays but still pretty significant amount for those uh you know about four days in the month so with that I'll take any questions on the fixed route but I'm happy to keep moving into the on demand I noticed the portable restrooms are gone at the transit center so we're all fixed up there all fixed up haven't had any problems since that repair has been made um we had a a a grinder pump installed which I'm learning stuff new every day keep keep the debris moving right so uh that's something that that was installed to keep ensure that the system doesn't go down again so we're pretty happy with how it turned out both the bathrooms are M yeah the the upstairs for the public as well as the downstairs for the operators okay and then um the stop that's in front of the it's on the street um that we talked about before about maybe having a shelter or a bench also I'm assuming there will be additional lighting right there with the street project yeah but I know it's pretty dark you may see some uh bolts uh they're they're kind of taped up right now but there there will be a street light uh right there there okay perfect um okay and then I noticed more of the old shelters are starting to disappear um and they're being moved to New locations okay and uh I think all but one of those have been completed so you should you shouldn't see the old shelters in those locations and then maybe you already got maybe you already saw it it's already been fixed but I did see maybe yesterday the day before the bus stop at Lindsay and Barry uh the glass was busted out of it okay it I haven't been notified that but that doesn't mean that it hasn't been fixed yet so after I get out of here I'll I'll make sure they know about that is it the on the North side street yeah yep in front of the Big Trees um okay councilor Grant yeah how what is the process for maybe moving a bus stop to the other side of the street or you could just put a crosswalk in but um it's feedback I got about food and shelter readed and Main um people have to cross to get to that bus stop on the other side of Maine uh it's a lot of foot traffic yeah so uh actually we have a bus stop on each side now there's just only a bench on the North side but there's just there is a sign uh cuz we have a route going actually two routes going back and forth on that Corridor now so I don't know if people are crossing just cuz there's a bench on the North side is it hard to put a bench in like what is not NE and say like this is the amount of ridership that's coming through on that side yeah so uh benches and shelters aren't something we've talked about a lot since the transition but uh they're exclusively provided by Tyler media and uh they sell ads obviously and uh the city you usually doesn't have to put up any Capital uh at least for the bus bus uh bench or shelter and in some cases not even for the pad depending on the location so uh and then the city also gets a kickback for the ads about 10% um it's I think 12,000 or 10% depending on which one's greater any given year so uh there's a lot to be said about not having to maintain glass being broken uh trash at those shelters that are uh advertised things like that um with that being said we haven't put up any new ones since we took over so when I was at OU when I was at cart usually we'd have to go in go and talk with Tyler and ask and uh get their opinion because obviously they want some eyeballs on the stop to be able to sell ads uh which makes sense and this one because there's one across the street um probably makes sense in that Corridor to have another one if if they're willing I have heard from Tyler that they're interested in putting it more uh more Assets in Norman now that we have the route changes I was going to say too is there money like in public service announcement style ads or health ads uh just given the nature of that Corridor because you do have County Health over there and Behavioral Health Services um I don't know if that's a steady Revenue stream but I think the government is the ones ponying up through maybe County Health or whoever is putting ads up to for the shelters well yeah and just like a public service announcement about whatever good mental health or STI testing or whatever I have seen a lot of our partners like uh the library system they they do two or three shelters if you drive around and see those um there's nothing I mean I think we have one for storm water on a shelter so I there's nothing precluding us or any other agency from doing an add on it okay um it might just be an educational how you reach out and and find the contact to put an ad up just ask Tyler if they're yeah I'll reach out to him and and probably after uh the new year and see what they think about that I do know they're interested in putting up more more shelters and benches in Norman obviously with our collaboration they can't just go put them down but we and we want to make sure they're at the stops that make sense from a ridership perspective too we we want those assets to be used by as many riders as possible so I think our longrange plan called out 15 Riders per stop for a shelter but I'd have to go back and look um to make sure there's there's a metric in there we wanted to make sure we are prioritizing the higher ridership stops for those is that a pretty busy one I imagine it is just because it's got like Walmart over there and South North there's some options I would have imagined it is too but I had the same thought when I was was passing it um I think last week is it seems like everybody keeps crossing the street to catch the bus on the other side and that could be because it's going into down town rather than they want to ride out right so that could be why they're Crossing where does the other loot take you so one of the routes uh it it's going to take you uh up to by Sutton and then West on Rock Creek to Garland uh square that kind of intersection at Porter in Rock Creek the other route is the Lindsay East Route that's where it does its turnaround at the at the roundabout so it's doing all of East Norman all the apartment complexes it's going up to Maine and then West on 12th and doing the turn chance it does see that number of writers 15 yeah maybe so we'll just have to go in the system and look at that the writers ship but uh I'll I'll ask Tyler media what they think about it too so okay thank you the uh 10% that we get off Those ads does that go into the general fund or the transit fund or how does where does that go I think it gets deposited into the transit fund okay MH um be interested to know for sure about that and then uh we would be able to put a bench anywhere we wanted to if it was requested by the public and maybe it didn't have enough riters for Tyler media to for it to be worth there while but if if we felt like we needed to have a bench or something we could do that right just a regular you could and then the maintenance would just like any other bench that's not add it would fall on ours um and I don't want to paint Tyler as a as a company that doesn't usually work with us there there's been countless bus stops in the past where we're like we really want this to have a shelter or a bench will you will you put it down even though it wasn't the greatest position for them so we'll see what they say Central Library was I think our most recent one that didn't have a stop or shelter and once that project was completed they came in and dropped one down so I think I think you're exactly right yeah they're pretty willing to to work with us on on locations and the maintenance the clean up around inside the stop the shelter ones like we did a walking thing down Lindsay Street last week West Lindsay and noticed some broken glass and some things like that inside one of them so we were wondering is it us is it Embark is it is that the brick ones that we we made so that would be the city because they're not ad okay um and uh that's just a uh a retroactive I mean we need to know reactive yeah kind of thing we need to know when there's issues cuz we don't have the staff to go by and sure and make sure unless a bus driver um I'm looking at Lamar a bus driver tells us uh but they're you know handling a thousand other things so they may not notice either so Tyler media they contract with somebody to clean up the keep clean the stops that they sponsor I think they have employees that do that a handful of employees employes so in the summer um when they come and collect the trash they'll weed e around the bus stop for the if they need to things like that um grati if there's any graffiti we just let them know and they come out and fix it so um and I know that cmer ball has been in contact with you about the East Side Library I don't yeah he sent me an email he couldn't be here but uh basically an emergency East Side Library route extension with the Central Library being closed um I know that's something he's pretty concerned about getting people out there yeah and I just wanted to get council's thoughts on that is this something temporary so we're just talking a a shuttle from say the transit center to East Side Library just for a specific amount of time or are you really wanting us to consider you know putting in the full blown route that was thought about in the I would say a temporary shuttle or whatever while the Central libraryies closed I think long term I would like to see a route that goes by there at some point that goes further out east as well perhaps but yes right probably something temporary for now with the longer goal of getting a full one so counc peacock yeah same thought um this is kind of a great opportunity to test a pilot on that route to see if it's viable which I have a good feeling it's going to be but um it's a nice Test Kitchen to really come in and see what works well it depending on what bus stops we put in for it right because um if it's just a Transit Center to ESI Library obviously there's there were stops thought up between there that could affect how it operates and how many people ride it um and there also are other priorities in the plan that we would need to talk about where we'd skip if we wanted to put in the East Side Library bus route first um just consideration right things that we have to figure out C Grant uh just curious what what are the barriers to fully realizing the total vision um well much like what we just did with the uh transition of the the routes uh we need to put in new bus stops um we need to do public Outreach uh to tell people about the changes because we are skipping if if we went ahead and and skipped other priorities that we had in front of it um we might need to do a public Outreach that is give us comments and public hearing type of thing because we're kind of going against the plan that was adopted uh but the physical infrastructure of the of the bus stops would probably be the so a temporary would kind of just like set expectations that this is just until Central's open uh and then what would that cost Anda between the two we need to get with our our friends at Embark and figure out what the cost would be and make sure we have a vehicle to to throw out there on route um we and we could consider once twice a day we would you know if you're willing to consider that would you want it every hour that kind of thing but we could look at anything if it's temporary and kind of on an emergency basis we also have the Westside Library still that is being served right so people could still access it um I know that the library system is moving services around and having people go to like the depot and different things like that so they might want to take take their account into consideration of how many programs have moved to the East Side Library versus West and and other locations um I was going to say too would it be possible to get from the East Side Library what uh their foot traffic is now to just kind of see who's coming from where yeah we could reach out to them and ask them that's kind of we probably need to collect some data make sure it's worth the the few months probably what three or four months left on the remediation depends I know they said five months but I right I I assume that was like Rosy Outlook yeah um and then the just logistically I know something we talked about with the long range plan was the turnaround there at the library there's just not a lot of space for a a big bus so we'd have to make sure we can actually do that or potentially what other alternatives are to go in and out of there yes are there shuttle style buses that's something we could consider uh but long term if the ridership grows and hopefully it does if we do put in the the full-blown stop or route we'd have to think about that how a big bus interacts with that location just pull through the fire station yeah leave a bay open bus bus Bay but we'll we'll go back to uh our partners Embark um see what they think about it operationally as well as dollars um and then maybe reach out to the library and see what they think about the where they're moving programs around to in the foot traffic okay so okay I appreciate that yeah any other questions about the ridership part okay and then the if I can get into the on demand really quick uh we had uh about we had 2850 riders in November and to date we've had uh 8,165 and we've started on August 21st so uh we're just a few months in still um number of trips so there's obviously more Riders riding together than there are are just single passengers occupy vehicles um but we've had 1734 trips in November and 4881 service to date um I won't go into the the all the metrics too much um because I did want to bring up something council member Holman's been asking about about with the possible expansion West um which we really took into account um 36 that kind of the boundary and taking it all the way up North if that makes sense so it would basically be kind of lindsy doing that curve and then all the way up to the HealthPlex and and then coming back down uh more or less along the interstate to to Robin to Rock Creek and getting some of University North Park which is already there um we reached out to Via the operator of Norman on devand and um they uh from January 1 which we obviously probably won't hit now uh through the rest of the contract which would be August 21st of this year they estimated about 68 70,000 they're recommending adding a vehicle so during the peak times um they just have we're we're asking to drive farther potentially so they want to make sure there's more another vehicle on the road to get uh to where where it needs to go so people's uh ride time and seatone availability uh doesn't go up too much and that was kind of their low number uh they they obviously estimated a higher ridership growth and that would be um almost double of that but uh I don't think we need to start there if Council really wants to consider that expansion for the remainder of the contract so 68,000 mhm for the remainder of the contract right so if you think about basically we capture pretty much all the west side of the to 30 commercial wise we' capture all of the west side of the interstate stuff right and obviously just thinking long term again we're building the plane as we're flying it if we want to just do exactly what we're doing if we if we did the expansion and then we did what that next year the cost would of that expansion would be double so you're looking at a 100 140 150,000 on top of what we paid this year a and then August just and whatever increase you know if we continue with v so I'm just putting that out there that that the long-term implications if we don't scale it back after and if we do keep the service which I know we're still debating in this committee so when would we need to make a decision about continuing with the program um I think the contract has UH 60 days guess we' have to approve the budget for it in June right that's kind of the leading it's not up until that's kind of the leading Factor uh is if Council wants to approve it obviously needs to be in the budget so I know I like we mentioned before having some options for us to consider at like could the Paratransit system be retrofitted or whatever to be an on demand would would it be a better benefit for the cost to add more bus routes or more frequence frequency to the bus routes um I think those would be helpful for the council before we make a budget decision yeah um I I know after our meeting last month Dr Dylan with Embark she runs the mobility management which in it's plus as well as Embark well it's a different type of service but she actually wanted to come back to the committee and explain some of those other types of services and kind of some projects she has going on on and one of those is a software that could um handle on demand pair Transit if if and when it is completed uh which it it will be so she wanted to give an update on that and I I think I reached out to Brenda to see if we could have time uh in January to do that if that's okay with you chair um for Dr Dylan to come back she got a grant to develop that software so um I think she's anticipating it being completed this year and it would allow us to implement that that on demand where previously it's just it's hard the softwares that have been Legacy just didn't do that so I'd love for her to come back because she's uh much more in that domain and knows a lot more about it but uh and then I'd love to talk more about what else we could potentially do with that money obviously microtransit wasn't the first priority in the long range plan Sunday service was which we kind of accomplished with it but after Sunday service the Route 110 and 112 frequency it's currently an hour so it recommended adding a bus on it like Lindsay East and having it at 30 minutes M which you know for somebody that's waiting on the bus if they miss it having to wait another hour is a big deal yeah so waiting another 30 minutes that's less of a big deal and then ideally you get down to 15 or 12 minutes and then you kind of throw the schedules out the window uh because the bus is coming by so frequently that's kind of the idea so okay uh that's that's kind of the progression I can see with that conversation so okay um I would be good with moving forward to the full Council I guess consideration for the expansion for the remainder of the pilot program okay uh to cover the all the way to 36th um and then all the way up and then figuring out whether we're going to continue the whole program or not um yeah okay and yeah as long as we're running a pilot we might as well get as many data points as we can to make that final budget decision come June time so I think I'd be I'd be all for that as well okay okay so uh are you thinking a study session or just go to agenda and look for consideration um maybe like a 10 minute study session I mean it I'll reach out to Brenda or we'll make sure we can get get it squeezed in okay and um let's see I think that's all I had on that okay I appreciate it I hope you guys have a great rest of your holiday thank you very much Taylor see you all in 2024 almost said 25 don't get ahead of myself right something you're not telling us yeah okay our next item on the agenda is a discussion about Road diets um and our existing policies and where we've done them where we might do them things like that and so we have David reing here with us to discuss it further okay so we want to talk a little bit about Road diets uh this is kind of what I had planned for this talk uh first of all what is a road diet uh CU there's a lot of things that are some things that are not Road diets uh how do we decide where where this technique gets implemented uh why are we considering Road Dives now uh some of the locations that we've completed if you didn't know we have completed some Road diets and there are some locations that we have yet to do so what is a road diet um the the key feature of a road diet is that it allows for reclaimed vehicular space to be used for other purposes so you can take a four-lane road and make it a three lane road with the extra width you could add bike Lanes on the sides uh you can reduce Lane widths and with that extra width you can pick up space for bike Lanes on either side of the road too so there's multiple ways to do it um you know that space can be reclaimed for a lot of things uh not not just bike Lanes that's just the the typical thing that people tend to see most of the time uh but you can add you can use it for bus lanes uh for pedestrian Refuge Islands uh sidewalks bus shelters parking or Landscaping lots of things you can do with that reclaim space but again the most common example that people think about is that four-lane road that's been restriped with three Road and adding bike Lanes on the outside uh we we'll talk about it here in in a couple minutes but we done that on Rock Creek Road uh we've done that on Main Street West Main Street um and again you can do the same thing for the cyclist by narrowing the lanes as well so how do we know where to implement Road diets well of course we fall back on our comprehensive Transportation plan it identifies a number of corridors where we should consider Road diets uh you know some of the corridors that were outlined give us a little more heartburn than other others uh Boyd Street's one of them it was identified as a road diet Corridor and just not sure how boy is going to handle going from two lanes in each direction to one lane in each Direction uh the models that we've developed to to to try to identify what those the magnitude of that change are kind of frightening I guess uh we really want that the the current version of the comprehensive plan to D a little deeper into a road diet on Bo Street for us and and get some better data that is definitely one of the projects I wanted to talk about too yes it's it's always out there yeah and especially because it's to the east it's a two-lane neighborhood street and then to the West it's a two-lane neighborhood street there's just a lot happens in that four Lane section yeah and people are always you know the the interior lanes because there's not a turn lane our road diet would fix ASP it would fix University you know and the fact that only one side can go the other side doesn't get a protected Arrow at all so yeah it's there are a lot of good reasons to do it but there's a lot of things to seriously consider too yeah okay you know this is a question maybe maybe you've thought about maybe you haven't thought about but why are we considering Road diets now well 30 or 40 years ago the mentality was when you had a two-lane road that was experiencing congestion you should widen it to a four-lane road so we have a lot of roads like that and and West Rock Creek Road was probably one of those examples that it just got widened and maybe that's not the way it needed to be widened but that's just the way things were done back then what was funny about West Rock Creek Road is that it was a four-lane arterial and then when it hit 48th Avenue West it turn into a two-lane Gravel Road yes like immediately it went four lanes two lane gravel now it's paved I think but yeah yes you know we've talked about Boyd Street there A lot of times there's problems with left turn left turn congestion uh because you don't have well a great a great example of left turn congestion was a project we just fixed on 12th Avenue at High Meadows yeah you know we had all that school traffic turning in there we didn't have a left turn lane for them to store in really couldn't provide the right kind of left turn signal for them to get into High Meadows that's all been addressed now uh but you know that's kind of what happens on a road like Rock Creek Road maybe only needed to be three lanes to provide opportunities for people to turn left into streets or driveways whatever it might have been when I not I notice on streets like Porter and Boyd and on 12th at High Meadows before was when there's a four-lane street that has no turn lane that through Lane you know somebody stops a turn left but all the traffic behind it is driving down the street like that's a and so they swerve at the last minute and get into the other Lane and go around them and it it's uh I've seen quite a few accidents on Porter based off people stopping and turn trying to turn left and people s well council member ball recently asked us to evaluate 12th in Bowmont it's the same thing yeah yeah where people are stopped to make that left turn onto Bowmont and everybody coming up from behind him doesn't know why they're stopped cuz I went to Kennedy that's been that yeah that right there my whole life I've noticed that uh little yeah you know back back in 30 or 40 years ago the the primary focus of Road design was to accommodate vehicular traffic so that's probably why you went from two lanes to four lanes and didn't think about three lanes with bike Lanes cuz they weren't doing bike Lanes in the 70s at least in most most areas they were not definitely not in Oklahoma um it wasn't until about 15 years ago that we started to hear more Nationwide efforts to look at multimodal type projects and things that would accommodate all users uh you know that's that's what our standard is now all of our new projects are doing that trying to retrofit some of the older projects is a little a little more challenging but we are looking at alternate uh different ways to accommodate those alternative modes and Road diets we think could be one of those ways so what have we completed uh Rock Creek Road from 48th Avenue Northwest to Grand View was restriped from four lanes to three lanes to add bike Lanes uh Main Street from 48th Avenue Northwest to Willow Branch Road has been restriped from four lanes to three lanes to add bike lanes and then we did some Lane narrowings with an ACOG Grant recently on universal from Boyd to Apache to provide bike lanes and the same thing on Webster from Dodge to Duffy through that same Grant to provide bike lanes and there are some pictures of those completed projects Road died on uh on Rock Creek Road in the upper left Main Street in the lower left uh Webster Avenue bike lanes and the university bike Lanes on the right side of the screen and you know we we the two uh bike lanes for the ACOG U Grant we've committed to to we do counts twice a year for ACOG in their in their uh pedestrian bike counts and we've committed to add these locations so we provide data to to AOG about the usage of these these lanes and they are being used good yeah we that that's the last thing we want to hear is that we that we uh went after a grant we're successful in in Achi being awarded the grant and then to find out that nobody uses it but they are using it uh what's been the reaction I think in general uh Rock Creek Road has been positive uh you you take away a lane you kind of worry how people are going to react that way there was some of that on Main Street it it didn't help that I think we had a road raid in road rage incident there how long is that been to go now four or five months ago now yes but things like that kind of make your reaction less than positive I guess uh would you is there evidence that points to the change in Lanes being a reason a reason for that incident not that I've seen where it goes from four down to three there I've heard anecdotal evidence that people say that's the reason but I haven't heard anybody officially say that was the reason now uh but the the bike Lanes on University and Webster both were P were were very positive and we expect that Main Street is going to become nothing but positive as more and more time passes people get used to the situation and things like that the section of Rock Creek Road between 36 and Grand View that was going to be done and then former council member objected to it so we didn't do it what is the status of that if you have that off the top of your head or maybe that's a next time would you like to hand we're actually still looking at that it's still a project that's on our books that we're still we still have it we want to do it we have collected deferral money to complete that project so there's no reason not to do it uh we're currently we're still working with property owners to get right away through that Corridor been a lot going on there a lot of uh interesting unique cases in that Corridor there's still three Property Owners we trying to get right away from and it would be a matter of finding the funding for it um the deferral money is not enough to do the complete project um I I was never aware of a council member delaying that being done um I've been working on that project for yeah six years and we've been working and never there's never been a reason that we have stopped or not been moving forward on it it uh it came to a vote for funding and uh council member that represented the area at the time the one of the residents on the corner where the roundabout would be did not agree so uh she objected and the council decided to vote with or well and part of the problem there was the I I my I I agree with what you're saying that what I'm remembering was that we were trying to get we were trying to get the right away on that corner and that property owner was not cooperating with us and the discussion came down to where we going to proceed with him the domain on that and at that time it was pulled back we've redesigned it now so we're not we're going to do a round about at that intersection now it's just going to be a straight one-way stop at T intersection like it is today and since that time we've been moving consistently forward trying to get this project completed and trying to get it funded well I wanted to do the project that you guys put forward before the roundabout I it would have been better than a four-way or three-way stop sign or whatever is there but okay thanks Scott uh councelor Grant so I was going to ask uh without the roundabout you're still looking for the funding to complete all of it absolutely because we did not have adequate funding to uh with the deferral funds uh short you know I I do not know at the top of my head but right now you're looking at a mile of roadway is costing about $7.5 million it's half a mile roadway so I'm going to say it's probably between three and a half and4 and A5 million doar um with the additional work we have to do through that Corridor okay and it would be a three Lane section that would we we'd match the existing Corridor uh that goes further to the west and we'd match that uh with bike Lanes great thank you so what remains from our 2014 CTP uh 48th Avenue Northwest between Main Street and Robinson was identified as a again a four lane to three lane with bike Lanes uh Alam street from Porter to ridg Lake Boulevard uh we've actually got an ACOG tap Grant to do that very interested to see the design of that because that section of alam is extraordinary really wide well Lan and what what we're looking to do there is Lane narrowing so we're not taking away any lanes just narrowing the lanes that are there so it' still be four lanes but it would have a wider Middle Lane or something or I think it's five Lanes all the way through yeah so it would be instead of being 12 to 14t Lanes they would probably be 10 to 11t Lanes okay so it' be space on the sides bike bike L perect okay yeah that one's and it would still have a turn ni yes yeah we would keep all that and there's there's just enough businesses that generate specific hour traffic like the gingerbread uh daycare center uh Homeland things like that that we weren't real comfortable with taking away a lane in each Direction sure but narrower lanes that sounds good it's a straight it's a straightaway that's exactly wide and that allow us to tie in with what the Alam Street Bond project did to the further to the east perfect perfect and then the the one we talked about already the boy Street and it again we want the that's one of the things we want the consultant to look at to to give us better data to help us feel more comfortable with what needs to be done there and here's those uh pending project locations uh 48th north of Main Street Alama west of Ridge Lake and Boyd Street East of flood and with that I'll take any other questions you have uh C peacock yeah um just while we're talking about Boyd real quick um I think the real benefit of that obviously is slowing the car down slowing the cars down so that you know making that a pedestrian connection it's less about how fast people can get through campus corner and how how easily pedestrians can get across void um and then on 36th Avenue Northwest everybody's favorite Albatross um is this a path forward potentially to dislodging funding on that project because the way I understand it correct me if I'm wrong the reason that doesn't score high is because it's a it's a car Centric it's a car only type project and that is not true a four lane widening yeah but it has a a 10-ft path on one side of the road and a 5ft sidewalk on the other side right okay yeah okay well I I was understood under the impression that that's the reason why some of these other like core projects were scoring higher is because they were more pedestrian friendly they had had more of that element Less Car element um I might be completely off base but that's just what I think it has a little more to do with just the way that the scoring is changed and and that's what I mean by that where where five years ago we could get a lot of points for those rural widenings they've got away from that now they're really going for more of these core projects well and and we've got a mile of 36 Avenue submitted to ACOG this year Year from tosa to Franklin and we should know within about two weeks whether or not we were successful or not one of the things that we're hanging our hat on this time around is they gave some points back for Readiness which is how we how we killed it okay year after year after year cuz we were always out there getting plans designed and and on that section all the RightWay has been required already the other other still all the way through we have for the the entire two M stretch we have all the RightWay Acquired and all utilities are clear all we need is we actually had environmental completed on that too but OD do wouldn't sign off on it because it wasn't funded and they don't want to have one out there that they have to redo uh so really all we need to do is we do need to do some update to the plans because there's some things we want to change and and improve on and then we're also waiting to hear if the turnpike may have an impact on the North section right uh so we can move forth the north section but we're we're ready to all we think that if they told us that we had money available unfortunately right now we're going for 27 funds 26 26 so we got it we got it delay so we would be more than ready to go and we'd be able to go out to bid that first bid letting of that year to be able to get that project out there Beth and I were in a three-hour long deposition a few weeks ago over this project so is that all resolved uh it'll be it'll be coming back to you okay for some fur discussion there were still some hold outs on the property so wasn't sure and then yeah all the turnpike you know what's going to happen there well that's why we stopped it Franklin went this one CU we knew it was going to be safe yeah that makes sense it wouldn't it wouldn't make sense to I think widen that to four lanes all the way to Indian Hill Road and then they come in and tear it up and do something and yeah cuz what is there about a mile a mile and a half left to the city limits and the turnpike's going to impact half of that probably okay well the only reason I was going down that line of thinking is because any chance we have to uh convert a four-lane road to a three-lane section I'm all for it any chance well the thing about 36 is you know we we tried that angle with a an ss4a Grant okay where we were we were talking about 36 being the reliever route anytime something happens on I35 traffic diverts to that location and the two-lane road just won't carry Interstate sense volume traffic so it's probably going to need to be four lanes well having that context even is enough like I get a lot of complaints from constituents about that you know we don't want a big four-lane Highway going through this area but again if um safety factors are what's dictating that it's huge it's a little easier to swallow absolutely you no okay um I did want to ask you about this manual on uniform traffic control devices being updated I just read about it and how do that impact us our policies going forward most of the things that we do on a day-to-day basis did not change there are some more obscure things that change but for the most part it's the same as I was reading through it and it was talking about just what you were saying about there was more of a focus on just widen a two lane to four lanes and uh no sidewalks just cars and this updated version was talking more about multimodal and Road diets and skinnier lanes and things like that so I wasn't sure how in how much you guys have dove into that already but well unfortunately we have our complete Street policy now too that were adopted with the EDC update so okay um there is I know we've talked about Porter a lot over the years um um Porter from Robinson all the way to like Brooks really um that being a potential candidate for a three-lane street that it's already the width of a three-lane street but has the skinny four lanes marked on it the skinny lanes are good um we like I said on Porter being at Friendly Market all these years watching the intersection at eala and Porter and the uh Highland Dairy trucks always trying to turn left right there and people swerving around them to try to go you know continue on and now we got the buses going on so um I know uh several award four council members going back years have been interested in that project as well and the first thing I worked on when I came here yeah the uh um with the opportunity you know we're about to repave Porter and we've talked about waiting until James Garner has finished to do this but I just keep thinking that if we're going to do it now would be the time to do it that we're repaving the whole street now if we repave it and we restripe it as four lanes like it is now then are we going to wait 10 years again till we repave it again to do that and so I would like us to think about what it would take to go ahead and do that especially since we've been delayed on these light poles and all that stuff and I don't know if that's too tight of a window but it seems like we have an opportunity to either do it right now or it's not going to happen for a while and I know staff has wanted to do get James Garner open and done before but I've always been apprehensive about opening James Garner and establishing a traffic pattern and then we're going to come back and try to change it later that's been my concern about two-way Main Street too is by not doing it in tandem with that project we're going to establish a new traffic pattern coming into downtown James Garner with a one-way Main Street and then we're going to come back later and try to change it and make it adapt to a two- lane or two-way and so I've always kind of been like grey Street's going two way and it's a three Lane section if we did Main Street do Porter do James Garner they're all there at the same time and they're all uniformed in the sense that they're all three lane sections and it seems like they would work really well together that way and same thing with Boyd um and the class and the portion of Classen from Alam to Brooks being entirely residential except for the Mt and the corner gas station right there you know um and the discussion about like the distance is the same if you're walking across the street but a three Lane Street is easier to cross than a four-lane street you know one less Lane of potential cars hitting you um so that's always seemed to make sense to me especially like in front of Lincoln and and through that neighborhood so um those are ones that I've had on my mind and part of why I wanted to discuss this was Council we should make a decision about what we want to do with these going forward um and I've heard more and more support from businesses um Property Owners downtown about two Lan two-way Main Street and going ahead and doing it and um finding a way to do it and I've been pushing for it for over a decade so I'm 100% on board um but uh but that just kind of all ties into this and why I wanted to thought it'd be a good opportunity for us to talk about it so kimbur PE second that whole that whole paragraph there um and I just it makes me think back to when Oklahoma city converted all their downtown oneway coulet um they did something called project 180 and it was literally they did every single one of them at the same time and yeah it was painful um but I I know the business owners were thankful that they only had to experience about 6 months of downtime versus you know trying to do those in series and you know maybe stretching that out over four or five year period and just kind of if I recall they re they rebuilt all those they tore them up and rebuilt them put street car tracks in as well um so it was a heavy lift but I think doing them all at the same time uh I get the reasons not for doing it but I would be i' would be in favor of looking what it would take yeah C Grant uh to that point I was going to ask like cop cuz I'm sure that factors into it like Grace Street was a bond we passed so uh I don't know what the ETA on raising funding for a two-way main would be but I am curious what the ETA on the light poles are if you know um February last time yeah is it still February or we looking we're still we're still being told February everything's subject to change but uh February is still the date that we're being given and they're going to come back that time start installing uh the lights and the signal poles especially you Falla and then they'll be moving up to do the other cor all the way through the corridor doing all the lights and traffic signals and then I was going to say with repaving Porter and thinking about restriping it what does that cost generally it's already going to be repaved as part of this Pro um shoot I mean we I'm going to I'm going to say it's R for for that what's that 2 miles one mile Robinson yeah it's probably in the neighborhood of 20,000 okay it's not that expensive really you could really budget for that in the next cycle okay and that'll be the last part of the project that was repaving the street right okay and it's being repaved anyway so okay so it's just the striping it's 20K but it would be restriped as a four-lane street if we don't do anything right right I don't if they're savings and striping three lanes instead of four but one less line one less line it's actually not oh that's right because you probably got to double up have that makes sense out you actually wind up quite a bit more actually the same number of lines yeah it is cuz you got double stri yeah instead of Dash you got yeah okay that's interesting okay so it costs the same for four or three is what I'm hearing pretty much yeah there's not really much savings okay um well like I said wanted to get that discussion going and if we can get more information about what it would take to do those um and then we can talk about it further at another time I think we'd want to look at I mean right now I don't think that Porter could support one lane of traffic at each way I don't it would be a nightmare we've seen what it's done during construction when we have a short section closed and the calls and the complaints that we get and the negativity and the problems that's caused with just one lane and that's not all due to people making left terms um I do think that we have improved the situation along there because in the past you had all those people making right turns to pull in and head in park in front of all those businesses or many of those businesses not all of them we've taken a lot of that away if not all of it so that's may be improved I think we really need to look at the the traffic numbers and the volumes uh we still have to I mean we've spent a lot of money there to make it a pedestrian friendly Corridor but I don't think we want to say we're going to wholesale mess it up for for transportation for cars too so I think we really need to look at it and I think that what we were saying is we wanted to see what the impacts were of James Garner because if it doesn't if James Garner doesn't take the amount of flow away that we think it's going to and we still have 80% of the traffic's on Porter today a a two lane with the center turn L could really be a transportation problem that we could create and I think that's what we're trying to avoid by being we're Engineers we're going to be we're going to take the most cautious safe route because it's impossible to go back to go backwards is a lot harder to do so it's easier to move with caution and in steps than to do something and then find out that you've got to reverse it and take it back um the other expense that we haven't accounted for with all this we went to three lanes we also have to change all the traffic signals uh so we got to change out heads remove heads um and so there's some other things that actually go into it it's not just striping so there's a lot of considerations we have to make there and we would just want to make sure that we studied it I wouldn't want to rush it and try to say in a month and a half we're ready to go let's just do it because we think it's going to be a good idea I think I'd really want to know before we made a decision of that magnitude well the the traffic lights that's part of why I wanted to do it too is we're already repaving the street and we're already replacing the traffic head Li heads this would be the opportunity to do that at two locations we still have multiple locations through that Ted yeah you got Main and gray You' have Alam you have I mean so there's still a lot that would have to be done so it's it's not quite just a change it with this project type of decision that we would make there's more involved in it that we need to look at to make sure we address it properly um the I would say that eliminating the street parking on Porter means that cars canect now drive faster on Porter without obstruction or worrying about oh I don't have to worry about anybody backing onto the street now I can drive faster and I've noticed this in front of Friendly Market now because we had the back out 90 degree and that caused people to slow down as they were approaching the eala intersection now it's a curb so they can just but I think you've also got the impact of you no longer have a stop light there and people know they don't have to slow down the stoplight is actually probably going to have more to do with slowing down traffic than the the the parking um you got very short runs of straight line there without without having a traffic signal or a stop potential stop condition so I think that we still it's hard to say in the middle of a project what the real outcome is going to be because we don't have all of the all of the systems in place that we're expecting okay um and I think to the intersection at Maine and Porter to me the only way to make that intersection safer for people is for it to be three lanes its current configur migration like the walk sign is on while cars are trying to turn left off of Main Street onto Porter um it's on while cars are trying to turn right off of Main Street onto Porter and if you're going if you're going westbound on Maine and you're at Porter it's almost impossible to turn left if if that's happening that's we shouldn't have known about that a long time ago because if you're if you're going east on Main Street the walk sign should only be onone for the South Lake in the intersection yeah the other side should should get a walk when westbound gets their green it's it's viewed as kind of a barrier in downtown Norman no I see that you go from the the 300 block of East Main and then trying to get over to stash and the fire to part you know people kind of view the porter as like ah I'm going to turn around and go back the other way because I just don't want to cross that street even though it's the same width as Main Street right but four lanes pretty quickly move moving and people turning in several directions it's a we've heard this from the businesses on the other side of Porter for years now about that's my same anecdote with boy Street yeah it's just same same condition maybe not the same result currently because students maybe take their lives in their hand a little more often but um you're exactly right yeah so yeah definitely for getting more information about about the potential of that going forward okay and the other ones that we mentioned so okay any other comments questions from you guys appreciate it Scott appreciate da I was just going to tell you that gray gray importer and Main importer is almost identical to voiding ASP voiding University right that's a good point yeah yeah yeah out of M if I can find the mouse I don't think I sto it 8 all right the third item on our agenda is a discussion regarding sidewalks as they relate to the Americans with Disabilities Act um sidewalk and gaps um and this was really brought about by just um thinking what the heck about our inventory of sidewalks are intersections that have may still have curbs that don't have Ada accessible ramps I know we've made a lot of progress over the last decade or so um replacing those old curbs with ramps and things but uh figured it' be a good opportunity to discuss memory sorry for some reason I've got something different than whats up there and I can't get anything to clear here I think it's just extending I got is this David right yeah yeah yeah so how did you he found the mouse luckily somebody here is smarter than I am and can show me how to do this go right it's acting like this SCS to the left man I was zooming around everywhere nothing of course it's not going to project up there because that other sidewalk yeah but it should go to that screen but we'll drag it over there we go okay now and now we're ready to go um thank you um I was concentrating very hard while you were talking I may have missed most of that it I can't I can't multitask that well these days um I kind of want to take a minute I think there's a lot of misconceptions and understandings about sidewalks so I kind of wanted to kind of got kind of a real quick sidewalk 101 here I'm not going to dwell on it and get to it and then kind of get to our Gap but I think that that how we do it and the things that we do I think a lot of people it's really lost on people um so sidewalk programs there's a lot of different ways that we track and and that we prioritize we uh rank we complete them and these are just some of the ways that we do that we do it we have our Ada transition update that we just did we have our ranking lists we have the annual sidewalk programs that Council gives us funding for every year in the in the capital budget we have Grant programs you're going to see later we've been very successful with getting money through Grant programs from from ACOG and OD do uh we have just Capital our Capital Improvement programs and then we also have our comprehensive Transportation plan and by the way this picture is actually here in Norman that's December that's his name he is you probably seen him around town he's the guy that's got the draft King uh license plate on the back of his wheelchair he goes all over Norman but this was actually up on Rock Creek Road and it's either oec or OG had just done a repair there and this was our idea for repairing the sidewalk they just threw down some gravel December got stuck in there twice well luckily Steve who uh handles our sidewalk programs is driving by stopped helped him out got him through it to the other side he was on his way home December was this is what we want to avoid with our sidewalk programs this is kind of an extreme case but these are the things that we think about when we're woring about sidewalks that looks like a new slab underneath that there there is and then they took out the next section and then they threw just threw gravel down and we said okay that is really not acceptable yeah so just to kind of show you the things that we deal with in our sidewalk Pro programs on a daily basis um so I kind of want to take a minute to talk about the a Ada transition plan uh the original plan was completed in 1993 it identified a lot of problems around town with our Ada including sidewalks so since 1993 it's been a consideration of something we work with this Ada self- evaluation transition Plan update was completed in 2018 and we looked at lots of things we looked at everything from our programs to uh our website to everything here in the city and then we included some parks some uh sidewalks as well as our municipal buildings so we identified eight miles and I'll show you what where those are in just a moment of sidewalk to be evaluated as well as 20 signalized intersections so we really kind of just did a good starter of what we think that we have and what our issues are to date we finished six miles of those sidewalks and the last two we have funding for and I'll talk about those here in just a little bit so these are those sidewalk miles you can see we had Main Street from 24th to Barry both sides so that was 2 miles then we had 24th um should be Northeast and Northwest there by the way but we went all the way from uh Lindsay Street to Robinson we've completed both of those sections now and the only one remaining is East Lindsay street from 12th Avenue Southeast to 24th Avenue Southeast again both sides of the roads on each one of these and that one we actually have funding for and we're in design right now and then we'll be moving forward getting that one done so we're looking forward to getting that done and be able to say we've done all the sidewalks and the transition plan and since 2018 so it's a pretty good ability to be able to turn that around so that 12th Avenue project it already has sidewalks on both sides right but they are not they're not ADA Compliant there's gaps there's broken sidewalks the driveways exceed the 2% cross slope there's just so basically it's not a full replacement but it is still almost a $700,000 over a $700,000 project 10 15 years ago East Lindsay from oakst to 24th was widened to four or five lanes and new sidewalks and stuff is that part having to be reevaluated too yes all the way through there's the whole Corridor there's there's issues and places where we need to do repairs part of that is we've gotten a lot stricter with when we really look at in our ADA compliance and making sure that we're in better compliance sidewalk ramps broken sections those items okay counc Grant um I was just curious I call them rumble strips I don't know what the maybe it's tactile pads tactile warning or truncated domes uh how do the is are they supposed to be installed with every project or is it just specific areas where they get put because I've gotten some feedback that there's some missing around uh East Main over stash side uh I don't think Main Street proper like on the other side of ERS uh got the same issue but I was just curious about the discrepancy on those so that's been brought in that's that's I I can't give you the year on that and I apologize that I believe it was 2011 was when they were uh brought in in the Ada in a proag and that's that's the date that's popping on my head from the when the Ada was kind of brought in and so projects after that were required to have them the question is where are they required they're obviously required at any stop like like a anywhere where you're at an intersection with stop control that required there and there's been some back and forth as to whether it required at driveways and Alleyways uh the latest proag which we have adopted in our EDC uh states that if it's a stop controlled driveway you're supposed to put in the truncated domes or the tactile warning so if it's got a four-way let's say over there on Finley in Maine if there's a four-way stop there now so there should be tactile warning if that were to be redone we would put in tactile warning yes it's we consider that pre-existing non-conforming but if we were to come through and do a project there we would have to bring it up to standard and put those in uh when we did that project and for the purpose of when we have to do that if you're doing an asphalt overlay project you have to fix all of the uh ramps at the intersections I remember when we got Obama stimulus money and for repaving multiple streets and it required if I recall that intersections had to be improved to Ada with ramps even if there was no sidewalk on any approach so you have some intersection I have people ask about it before where there's an intersection where there's Ada ramps on all four corners but they don't connect to any sidewalks in any direction and it's like well that's just a requirement of the federal funding that yeah good that they're there now and and that's been a discussion and something that that has kind of been changed that's gotten some clarification a from uh the federal government as to what when and where those are required we follow the most recent guidelines on that and typically if there's not sidewalks we don't have to put them in now but if there but if there's a ramp there and we're doing a Paving project and we touch the area of that ramp we have to bring that ramp into compliance then the question became okay so now is a sidewalk out of compliance and they're like no just the ramps is all that has to be done so we're still always flushing that out and we're always making sure that we're up to date and following the latest Federal guid lines on that perfect um just this is just one of the pages out of a presentation that was done years ago uh with this just to show you some of the things that were looking at uh the color contrast if you notice those truncated domes are always a different color that's a color contrast so somebody who's visually impaired can have a opportunity to see it as well as feel it um missing or non compliant texture contrast again that's the truncated domes I find it interesting that the the percent client is different on those two when they're pretty much the same thing but you at one point you could do kind of a strip like kind of a rumble strip if you wanted to uh call it that uh you can see cross slope on the ramps curve cross slope so there's a number of items you know we we ranged in our compliance on these eight miles as to what it was uh these are the signalized intersections I'm not going to read them all off you can kind of see that we're kind of through some very specific corridors um we're still addressing these uh we we spent more time woring about the sidewalks for right now but anytime we go back and we do a project we make sure that we're making them compliant and again kind of the same type of things you can see they did a percent compliant they listed the problems at each one so we know exactly what to go back and repair as we get to them um we also have sidewalk tracking lists ranking and tracking lists we have two of them we have the large project ranking list which any of you that have sent me a a request for a sidewalk you get back here's the sheet and it ranks number 26 out of 42 or whatever that's the ranking sheet it's a living document we move them off and on as we need to and then we also have our Citywide 50/50 location map or uh list uh and how we get these how you get on this list for any of these projects it could be a council member uh asking about a project or filling in something citizens it could be an action center complaint or there could be other sources that we pick up U just if we hear about it we put it on the list but a lot of people call and say well why haven't you already fixed this and I'm like we didn't know it was broken we do not go out and inspect sidewalks as you're going to see we have more work than we can complete without us going out and do an inspection plus we don't have staff to go out and inspect sidewalks so it's it's a complaint driven program right now this is that ranking list I know you can't read anything on it my point is there's a lot of factors we go into this and a lot of things we do to to make sure that we're getting a good equitable way to look at it so we can really compare there are 47 locations currently listed on that on that large project priority ranking list and about 2third of them have cost association with them and that's $3.8 million just for the projects that have costs so it's probably about five and a half maybe $6 Million worth in total projects um we track things like the location the ward uh what the ranking is the cost of that project so we can go back and look at it and then we also some of those items that we rank them on we look at uh the tractors and by tractors we mean is it near school is it near a bus stop um is it near hospitals we also look at is it an ADA complaint did it come in from a citizen saying I can't get my Mobility device through this area as it newer existing sidewalk if it been accidents we also have a a number in there for how long it's been on the list so you get points for being on the list longer and there's some projects if it wasn't for that they wouldn't even be ranking they'd be down in the bottom view no matter what so we look at a lot of different things and this is how when we're looking at projects for the next year as we're looking at the annual programs we go to this ranking list and we go okay we also have on there whether it's a sidewalk uh you know arterials and schools or is it an accessibility and we go through and we look what's the highest ranked project that we can afford to put on at this time or do we break out that Higher One In phases because many times we'll come to you and say we want to do this is phase one so that's this is where we base our big decisions on about where to attack and what projects we want to take on first this is the 5050 sidewalk list it really is just a tracking to make sure we get them taken care of um most of you are aware probably all of you that the 50/50 program is very successful the property owners are actually statutorily required to take care of the adjacent sidewalk and we get a lot of calls that start like this you need to come fix my sidewalk and we say well it's actually your responsibility and then the the the anger starts and then we say however Council has given us a program that we can split that cost 50/50 and we can send our uh contractor out to do it for you and we'll manage it for you if you just fill out this form and send us your check we'll we'll knock it off the list I would encourage our uh staff that's on the phone to say unlike most cities our City offers a 50/50 cost share program so maybe that'll help bring their anger down a little bit and we do that that's make sure they know that if they live somewhere else they might have to pay 100% And that's always something that we share you know this is a program that our Council has has given us to to help our citizens it's not required and a lot of communities don't do this so it's always part of the conversation in there uh this year we've already fixed 61 locations across Norman Old Brook Haven looks like got a bunch well and I apologize this map is actually at 2023 I I didn't find the full 2024 map to put on here there's more in core Norman that was on on here uh this year in 2024 um as I said we share the cost the city manages it but this year we had $100,000 in the budget we've already expended it and that is for the physical year so for the rest of the year when when complaints come in or something happens the citizen is going to have to repair that on their own because we don't have funding to to pay for that uh well I wouldn't mind considering a an allocation to cover the rest of the year and and that's something that we're considering um you are going to have a item on for the 9th where we're actually asking to reimburse this fund with the so the money that the citizens pay in goes into a revenue fund and we can request that back into this fund and we we do that to kind of replenish but it's the this one is only about 20 to $25,000 and most of that money is already spent with projects that are on the list so it's a very successful program and we we really want to maintain it and keep it going but we'd be happy to uh look at it for a midyear adjustment yeah if we allocated another 50 maybe that might get us through we kind of started with a big backlog at the beginning of the year yeah um and in fact they did this basically why they're doing the uh bus stops they kind of knocking them out in conjunction together okay I just want to say on this map the thing I think is so appealing about it is that we don't have a lot of sidewalk needs shown in the core right here and a lot of the the work is kind of being done on the fringes on on the edges where you would think sidewalks aren't as prevalent maybe perhaps and so I I love to see that you know we've got a nice diverse coverage across the city not just focused in one area no it's it's Citywide yeah this is that annual program these are the programs that you uh as Council fund every year and we hope to continue that again in this budget cycle has been very good um I just put the the pro the programs in where they were this year so the sidewalk program for schools arterials was void from bury to flood on the south side we're not going to get all the way to flood we've got to do a pedestrian bridge and a little bit of work as you get closer to flood but we were probably going to be coming back and that'll be part of this next annual budget um on that project so any anytime I post any update about a sidewalk project in Norman there's a guy that comments he's an old Norman guy but he always mentions to me when are you going to fix flood and no yeah flood and oid the corner the southwest east corner has a step has a couple steps and then a curb there is a really large nice tree there on the corner too so I've told them that it's in I've seen it in the project list that it's coming up probably would it be part of that project Southeast Corner we're we're stopping at flood and not continuing to pass out I'm not sure if it would be the we can look at that and maybe we extend across and that's part of the problem we start looking especially into these older neighborhoods like this where uh Ada wasn't considered there's a lot of places where getting any ADA compliance at all is almost impossible the other three corners have ramps two of them have have the Dome thing on them and then one of them doesn't but it is a ramp so yeah just that one corner but I get asked about that corner every time I post any sidewalk project that's going on well we'll note that and we'll take a look at it we'll get it we'll get it in there somehow we'll try to figure out how we can get that addressed you know another hard location which is on the other end of this the north side of Barry also good or Bo excuse me the the north side there there's no rideway so we really don't have room to get sidewalk in we're going to have to purchase right away from those homes right and then as you continue North on Barry from Boyd it's going to take some extensive retaining walls and it's going to be a very big expensive project to do that's why we're starting on the South Side so we at least get some connectivity through this area Boyd to Grover Lane is the only missing well not the only south of Brooks is too but yeah Grover to boy that one block and a person that lives on that corner is who has been yeah asking about us asking us about it for a long time council member Grant uh I was just curious CU you know we have a Street Maintenance Bond that's every 5 years we just passed a bridge bond what recommends those for bonds versus like also doing a regular maintenance you know and I guess Gap filling uh kind of bonds like that's it's always something could be considered okay I feel like it's just the lowest hanging fruit for cities like everybody loves a sidewalk especially an accessible one um I was just curious like has there ever been discussion about thinking about that it requires a 60% voter approval for some sidewalks again little hang everybody loves a sidewalk failed last time vote for not in the last decade but maybe in the mid 2000s or late 90s that was prior to my time here so I'm not sure there has been a vote if if I understand correctly there has been a vote in Norman before on sidewalks a bond for sidewalks and it failed why is it and if I recall it got over 50% but it didn't get 60 and so it fa we could do that today but so I don't I don't know why that is I've wondered myself why why 60% for sidewalks that makes no sense but it seems like go down and that's not our rule that no sure I don't yeah I don't understand that I I can get I can probably see where it's coming from because I think that there was dis there's been discussion in the past but do you want to add it to the street Bond and then it went to that that would increase the the vote but we'd have to that's something that could always be investigated it's a state statute thing so if you really want to change you just go bother represent Jacob and Jared and Annie to change it uh yeah just before we move on to that Barry North project that you mentioned a second ago uh you said that right away acquisition was kind of the challenging part of it and then maybe some retaining wall aspects um I've heard from a lot of property owners while out knocking doors that if it was just proper if it was just rideway acquisition I think you'd have some very willing property owners and that's putting that out there if that's kind of the hurdle and we will move forward with with starting to look at the North side but we figure the southide loow hanging fruit do the southide quicker and easier and get it taken care of and at least get connectivity while we're working through the rest of I only mention it because it's coming like I said yeah we haven't had any we haven't contacted Property Owners about right away yet there's three large trees there too that are that's what I've told her but yeah so being able to do it without losing all three of them would be nice too um maybe it costs more but it might be worth it you might even have to acquire more rideway to get further into the yard if you had to get around the again I think that the property owner that we're I think both referring to I think would' be open to something like that giving up more rideway to save trees and get the sidewalk um I think there's path forward so we can and as we get closer and start looking at that project we'll start apprciate that we'll look at more Al on that stretch and one of them is the person that wants it so it's yeah yeah halfway there yeah and and then our sidewalk accessibility project we're just beating up on void Street uh so we're doing the ramps at college and Elm so getting those fixed getting those ADA Compliant um by the way the void Street project we're going to hold off until school's out because we will have to close the South Lane uh there's just no way to get equipment in there and work safely with traffic there so we'll have to close that South Lane so we're wait till school's out so the OU and NPS aren't affected as bad so new ramps at Elm and Lindsay or El and Boyd yeah and college and Boyd yeah boy yeah those are being done in fact they're being done one of one's already completed one's completed and the other one we're trying to get them done during this Christmas break so that we can uh not not impact the the the pedestrian traffic for OU uh the Citywide project we've already talked about the downtown area sidewalks was Webster Avenue and Crawford Avenue we did Webster over here along the side of the city offices and then we did between um uh Crawford on the east side from the alley North to gray there was just that sidewalk is really bad there in front of the opis in that area that's done that's completed and sidewalks and trails we completed uh on 12th Avenue Northeast basically on the north side of Rock Creek and tied them into the sidewalks on the North side so it's was good to get those those are already completed horizontal saw cut uh that'll be coming probably in February to do that work we're going to start on Barry at mhof and work our way North until we run out of money and then probably start there the next year so we're going to just try to get as far as we can with the funding that we have and then we had the sidewalks that were requested that that Council requested and added to the budget about $216,000 of additional sidewalks walk work and that was College Classen Avenue Northwest of Highway 9 uh the George Avenue on the east side and then the westw Creek Road little gap on the North side appreciate that so those we had just recently put those out to bid we got the bids back and unfortunately we neither bid was filled out properly we have had to uh reject the bids we'll be read vertising those so kind of frustrating um we had a good bid uh I will say that we're seeing a lot of increase in cost in June uh sidewalk cost for just the for putting the concrete down was $60 per square yard in this bid it was $75 per square yard from the same contractor he said it was all material cost so we've seen a 15% increase in six months believe that yeah it seems convenient in my opinion it seems like every company can now just say oh I'm going to raise my prices it's uh this we're we're it we're seeing it across the board um I think that in the past year we've seen about a 60% uh construction increase in cost yeah so it's getting pretty companies are also like making record profits too right now well and I also think there's a lot of work so they're not having to they're not having to sharpen those pencils as much as they used to the buyer Market yeah that's true so okay so this is one slide that when I put together really shocked me I was really proud of it so um in fact David's been really active in trying to get funding and get uh grants through ACOG and OD do for sidewalk projects this is what we do for fun but you can see when you look at the total here it's $5.8 Million worth of of new sidewalks and the first one uh that we got was the lindsy street that's on the coming out of that transition plan from 12 to 24 Southeast uh you can see there it's a $730,000 project and then uh we submitted a bundled project of 12th Avenue Northeast and Brook Street so the 12th Avenue Northeast is from Robinson to Rock Creek and that's all along Griffin and Sutton we're proposing put in a 10-ft multimodal trail on that side and then complete that little section on the North so that's going to complete all of that section from basically you're going to be able to get almost all the way to tumu on sidewalk uh then the Brook Street sidewalk will be uh North Side South side Brooks I think it was the north side I think we're doing the north side we're doing one side of Brooks from Wy to Barry and that was a request that came up from a citizen it fit this category really well uh the other projects are the flood Avenue multimodal path from Robinson all the way to Tuma on the West Side uh the multimodal uh the Highway 9 multimodal path basically two projects but from 48 to 60th and then from 48 to 60th again I don't know who put that slide together how about 60th to 72nd on the second one there and then we finished with that at least unless we want to go in the future further out but and I think the ultimate idea would be to take it out further try actually tie into the state park instead of having to try to find your way through and then uh the class in Boulevard uh Boyd Street to 12th Avenue Southeast we actually didn't get Bond funding for it but we're going to be funding that locally so I put it on this table because it just fit here because we thought it was going to be a bond project well again you can see the the federal share the local share and the total share there on each of those projects pretty good work but that's a lot of work to do each one of these have to be uh designed by consultants and go through the OD do process so there's a lot of work and time that goes just into these six projects the boy the Classen Boulevard project that's on both sides or sidewalk on both sides okay yes and all the way down to where Classen turns into 12th at that section okay and and you got an item on your Council agenda for the nth for the last of the three easements that we had to acquire for that so once we have that in hand and filed at the courthouse we will put a bid package out for construction perfect okay you also have an item for all of the easements for the flood mon of multim motal path on the 9th as well and then like you said that one goes we'll go all the way up to tumsa yes turn left to 24th and it will go up to tumsa and go over to 24th and then it stops there but then it there's an existing one at least over to uh Thedford Drive yeah yes and we we keep looking at what can we do to get us across I35 um that's that's one that we keep wanting to try to get done unfortunately the path is on the other side on on the west side of Tums it's on the North side and it's on the South Side on the on the east of Highway of I35 so we'd have to do some work there but at least it's starting to give us a connection and starting to tie in and then as development occurs on 24th they're required to put in the Legacy Trail on the west side or the East Side excuse me so it's starting to piece together and we're getting closer to having that completed out too and um because when I posted about the flood multimodal project someone asked about getting from the HealthPlex across I35 to that point and I told them that um you know we had done a joint study with the city of Moore on the I35 Corridor and to comea Bridge and interchange was identified as being deficient and would wouldn't be something we would replace but it would be replaced at some point and whenever that happens I would assume it'd be a new bridge and interchange that has sidewalks multimodal on both sides and all that stuff so that that would be we would request that or make that a require enironment off do you off top of your head any idea about when that based off the study we did any so far question about that at all it's kind of gone quiet at ODOT uh there's nothing in the eight-year plan that's listed in that Corridor study it's also one of the biggest concerns I've heard about the development of the University North Park area further than what's already developed is what's already bad traffic-wise at to come I35 and what will this do to that we agree and we have a revised traffic impact analysis that's being reviewed for that before it comes back to councel okay but that's the long-term solution to getting a path over the connection over the I35 right there and connecting the health Plex I also advise that person they could go from the health Plex South down 36 to Rock Creek and go across there and it's continuous from that point all the way to all the way to the Far East Side basically yeah so you can connect all the way to the southeast side of town from there once we get James Garner completed and we get the Legacy Trail put back in and we'll have the crossing uh there on James Garner uh over Robinson where we'll have the the Legacy Trail Crossing there too so it'll be a lot safer uh condition than we have today yeah okay I just kind of want to mention if you have our Capital Improvement program Bond projects that we have out there that are either ongoing or that are coming up in the next year of course supporter streetcape James Garner Phase 2 those are both going to be uh fully ada8 compliant in fact that's the whole purpose of the Porter streetcape is get that ada8 compliant and I just discussed the James Garner Phase 2 and then within the next year we'll have the Grey Street two-way conversion which we're going to be fixing sidewalks and making sure the ADA Compliant James Garner phase three uh same thing we'll making sure everything's ADA Compliant through that Corridor and then Jenkin Avenue which will have a 10ft multimodal path on one side and 8T side walk on the other so effectively both sides uh so a lot of work coming up that's going to be adding sidewalks to corridors that currently don't have them uh so now the comp comprehensive Transportation plan I think we kind of Base a lot of stuff on it here uh it was completed in May 2014 and in that there were a couple different items there's the it created a bicyclist and pedestrian facilities master plan it had some some specific project uh recommendations and we do look at that list too and we're looking at larger projects but probably more uh pertinent to this discussion is a sidewalk comp completion plan and it actually mapped sidewalk gaps um and then it it kind of showed them as committed high priority or developer driven or uncommitted and I this is a 36x 48 map that we have on our wall and we all go to it consistently but this is the map that produced back then uh the purple would be developer driven the red is not committed meaning there was no funding or source for it at the time black was committed and then uh the green were the high priority so that's just kind of it's really hard to see there and I apologize but that was what was in the initial plan and where you see the whiter purple lines now which is even harder to see I apologize again uh those are completed those are ones that we've taken off that list since 2014 when we started going through and taking them off and looking at it I was really shocked at how much we were able to complete in that since that time frame but we've gone through we've worked with our GIS department and we've updated it so if there's a project that's on the the the large uh project list that's a gap or something that we think has significant damage we don't think it's a usable sidewalk we've updated it here and now black is what you see is committed and we've also been able to add a lot of areas that weren't committed prior uh to being committed and most of those are through the 2019 Bond program so we do have a sidewalk Gap map that we're watching that we do we always look at this map and can we do something to get these these done um so I I know that you had some concern about ADA gaps I just kind of wanted to get us to this point so you knew how we do things and then we can start trying to address your thoughts or concerns Council M Grant um to the my left of the OU what is that green or is that black I think it was green on the previous two slides which means high priority right yes Corner that's boy is it right next to youo that is that's void I think that's basically the the project that we're trying to work on now the bottom line is black on that because it's committed is done because we've committed that work so now we've got that shown as committed instead of high priority because it's now being worked on and it's a project that's that's funded and we're moving forward with it thanks and I'd be happy to share these Maps um we could I could get them to the city clerk's office to get to you like to have those because I know they're very I was concerned about it and I was hoping that maybe when we got on the big screen it would make a little more sense but it doesn't really play out very well on a slide so the uh Cedar Lane down there um uh where it's in the plan but we don't have any funding or anything to build a street there to what to extend it and um the development on that corner or Jenkins and Highway 9 they had talked about doing that and their recent plan it's not in there I noticed so uh but I know that part of the trails plan is even if there's not a street there we could have a multimodal path that goes over to Jenkins and then goes up Jenkins I guess and connects to where the weather center is and everything we could we could look at that as options and then um I mentioned before when I proposed those list of projects last budget um on jenin from Congress up to Constitution that's the only Gap that's missing um on that side of the street anyway all the way down to Highway 9 and I think you or somebody on staff mentioned that that might be addressed with the Jenkins project that the sidewalk might actually go all the way down to Congress yeah we're not going to go we're going to we're we're challenged right now at this point with uh funding on that project with the increased costs we don't feel that we can add that to this project uh that would be a future project we did look at if there was some savings that we could take and put over towards that uh we feel that right now that because we got so many Bond projects and with the funding issues that we're having we'd rather take any savings that we have and put that back into the bond program rather than extending projects right now we just think that that's the more prudent use of the bond funding and also we really feel that OU we like to get OU to help participate cuz that's all OU property say I think you mentioned that that Frontage from Constitution down to Congress was OU 100% so yeah maybe that getting with them but yeah it's just a two block missing Gap and and I do know that at one point I was contacted by a designer that was working with the university to build That Sidewalk I don't know what happened that was a few years ago now uh but they the University was looking at it at one point okay and okay and then one of the things I was interested in about regarding this item was the how many sidewalks in Norman do we know of that still have a drop off or just have a curb and there's no ramp at all anymore we I can even give you a guess because we don't have it we don't have an inventory like that um we did look into what it would cost sure we did have an inventory no we do not we did look into um um IMS who does our street uh uh ranking for us they we contacted them they do a similar product for sidewalks and they quoted us $50,000 a year for five years to cover Norman and that's about three or four times the cost of what it is to do the streets we went no thank you what is it it would just tell us they would go out they would actually go out they would do basically using lar they would go out and they'd be able to tell us where every trip Hazard was they'd be able to tell us every ramp the cross slope they'd be able to give us a full Citywide picture of what is not an ADA compliance then the question becomes so now you've got that in your back pocket how do you take that much data and actually start putting it in uh to make it usable but so we it just was something that it felt like a a very with knowing the number of the projects we have and the amount of things we already have to fix to bring that in it seemed like we'd rather be spending money on fixing what we know about and taking care of things as we go forward sure yeah I could see the value in that at some point for sure potentially um but I agree take fixing what we already know yeah with the backlog of what we have and we have you know probably five six millon or five million dollars worth of project sitting on a list I'd rather spend any money we have fixing that list rather than finding more problems because project costs are going to continue to go up and maybe design costs won't escalate at the same rate and so yeah well and um like I said I've just over the past 10 15 years it's noticeable the progress I think we've made on uh converting all the Sidewalk Ends to ramps instead of curbs and uh like I said that want at flood and void is the one of the only ones I can think of off the top of my head there's a others but that's the main one I hear about all the time um but yeah I wasn't sure if we had an inventory of those and um if we had like oh we've completed 90% of them we've got 30 of them left or something like that that the closest thing we'd have is what we have from the Ada transition plan that was those 20 intersections and they told us if there was a problem if there's a ramp missing or if we need to put a ramp in um but yeah any but any project that we do now um we we always look at it as a complete Street we make sure that we're addressing pedestrians we make sure it's 8 compliant and there have been some projects where people want to do some stuff and I said we're not going to walk away ADA Compliant I don't want to let's let's not even do that right now yeah okay any comments questions I just have one last one because you started the slideshow with the example of the OG sidewalk te up is there actually a process for um uh these folks whenever they do take outside walk like I just remember complaints about even a developer off a boy uh making the sidewalk inaccessible and that's actually a fine because they didn't get permission do the permit to close it down so I'm curious about that particular example absolutely so we do have a rightaway permitting process and even utilities are supposed to be getting that permit but we don't charge franchise utilities so they should be coming and getting a permit now we understand if if it's an emergency and they got to fix a gas line we don't expect you to come get a permit but we wish they would turn around and come back to us a lot of the utilities don't bother with getting the the permit at all um any contractor doing work in the RightWay is supposed to come and get a RightWay permit so if they're doing a a sewer connection that they got to get out into the roadway or Brock a sidewalk they're supposed to come in and get a rideway permit and then we if it's not a developer we have have um we actually assign a cost for closing that section of sidewalk or that section of roadway and they have to pay that and they say we can do it in two weeks and if they go to four weeks then we can charge them again for that um we don't get a lot of compliance with it and we're trying to do better with that and we're trying to when we see people make sure they know thinks they can just kind of go out there and just tear up public infrastructure um and part of the reason for it isn't just that we want to collect fees but because we want to make make sure it's restored properly if it's if we don't know about it they can go out there and pour a 2in you know patch over a roadway and we wind up fixing it later when it breaks and we have standards for how to fix those things so yes there is a process it's just isn't followed and we're having a lot of compliance issues a lot of compliance with that and it's amazing that you know we have people who will just come in and they start building a home on an existing lot they tear out the sidewalk and then we go you can't do that and they go yeah yeah we can no and then it becomes a battle to get that sidewalk placed back especially in in the core area we have a lot more issues with that so with that example did they go back and fix that section they did and as soon as we contacted them they said oh yeah we're going to get our crew out there to fix it and I think they fix it fairly quickly but it took us reaching back out to them and saying you guys left a mess that we need to have repaired so it's complaint driven still yes yeah we there's just no way we don't have staff to drive all of our and look for issues on sidewalks and um you know we've advocated for a RightWay coordinator that would help track these things be able to watch and maybe be out doing more movement through uh town to look for issues and concerns and uh when we get that citizen complaint that you know oec just cut all the way across my driveway and didn't fix it you know and that we would have somebody who could address that better right now we have multiple people in the kind of tag team who has the time to do deal with it but right away it's becoming harder and harder to address especially since we're adding AT&T fiber and oec fiber and and you know we're adding stuff into our rideway all the time and making it more complicated and I was going to ask what is the RightWay coordinator cost uh you know position like 50k a year 60 I we put I think that last year when we were looking at it we thought based you know on similar type it would be in the $70,000 range maybe and there's there's a cross range I did a I actually did a budget request last year that I was probably going to try to resubmit this year but then You' got all the setup cost of computers and phones and you know just other things you have to get along with that okay um probably the last thing I want to mention was on our walking tour of West Lindsay um we noticed that the corner of the northwest corner of Lindy and Barry um quite the desire path is developed uh there's sidewalk but people are taking the straightest line um as they do and so we noticed that and we noticed we talked a lot about the number of driveways of course I know staff spent a lot of time trying to address that with the project and I think we got a net zero like we we took ours out but then we allowed a new one with the plasma center so uh it was like but we noticed along the sidewalk along the corridor there were these panels in the sidewalk that had uh like I hadn't really seen them before but they had I don't know where you could put Hooks and pull the panel up out of the ground and we assumed it had to do with utilities but that's that that's the underground that's the that's the cost of going underground to utilities is you have to have places like that and they typically wind up falling right where your sidewalk has to be right um on that project we actually spent a it was like $1.5 million building a duct bank for all of them to go in and then they came through and charged us to do all the work on top um but yeah that's what those were for uh in most cases and then you have to have the sweeps that come out of it to get to the boxes to bring it all back up above ground and make your connections but those are they're supposed to be ADA Compliant that's what we were wondering because they they look like it definitely somebody's wheel could get stuck in them in the little grooves where the hooks would go I guess so we weren't sure so we just noted that down in the design they were ADA Compliant um so maybe that's even though it's a new Street you know is it is it a fully ADA Compliant and we assume it is but it was inspected by um fhwa and anything there were some corrections we had to make uh the truncated domes didn't go all the way from all the way across and we had to repair those in some locations and there were some issues with how we had ended some of those so there were some areas we had to do some but they did not identify that as an issue in their Ada uh okay walk through would there ever be an oportunity I guess there would be but um an opportunity to go back through the corridor and see what it would take to get any of the property owners to agree to consolidate CU like we were just looking at the you know where the the veterans Foundation is that strip mall and that there's three driveways and it's like ah this could just easily be one I know the staff already went over that years ago but it we're just like this is so ridiculous that there's three driveways for this one shopping strip and they that could easily be one driveway driveways are like gold I know you do not get them give them up for any reason we literally we took that project we went we we had meetings quarter M we had one with all the property owners then we went quarter mile by quarter mile and then we went down the corridor meeting with each one and we only had two Property Owners agree to to get rid of one and one during construction said my site won't work if you don't give it back and we had to put it back in um I do not I do not know that we' have any more luck or success doing it today um I know exactly what you're talking about we said we we said the same things um you know I think that if it wasn't for the center Median on that project I think that roadway would be very hard to to to deal with and very hard to get up and down yeah um but we we worked that we've never had that big of a concerted effort in one location to try to do that even noted that bethl has four of them yeah and they're just one Frontage and I was like really does it need to have four I mean in that Corridor we also uh we we teamed up with iqc um and and we also uh wound up bringing in a consultant Gateway Consulting out of Dallas and we offered to pay for Consulting to show them how they could bring the buildings forward and put put the parking in the back and get rid of driveways and out of that entire Corridor we had one property owner take a St on it and he looked at and went well everybody else isn't doing it and that was the end of it so we we spent more time and effort on that Corridor trying to trying to really change the look and the feel of that Corridor and we really just didn't get have any success with the property owners that's kind yeah go for it I was just going to say it's uh it is much better than it was before especially having continuous ADA Compliant sidewalks on both sides and as David showed us a year or so ago about how you know 50% reduction in traffic accidents thanks to the median um but when we were walking the corridor we did notice that it was not particularly uh a friendly place to be walking even though there is a sidewalk you know there's just a little strip between you and the street and the traffic definitely the one of the downsides of the new Lindsay street is that being a four lane with very wide Lanes is that traffic seems to be moving quite faster and uh so when you're on the sidewalk it's like cars are zooming past you it very loud and U not a lot of shade of course not yet until the trees get bigger but uh that's just what we kind of observed was that this was not a very uh pedestrian not very pedestrian even though there is a sidewalk this the surround ings made it with all the different driveway gaps you had to cross and high-speed traffic right next to you was kind of like H I don't know if I'd want to walk up and down here every day you know but like I said better than it was before for sure but well I think that the the just the way that the buildings are yeah everything is way back off of I mean it there's so much underutilized space that we noted to behind stuff but uh but that's just something we observed about how we could have new sidewalk and knew everything and it still might not be real pedestrian or Ada friendly based off of other factors like a bunch of driveways or high speed if you remember the best stretch of that whole trip was the one spot where the building is right up against the road and where the trees are right up against the road it's just that one little section it's like two buildings right there but um what I was going to say about bringing the buildings forward moving all the parking in the back I mean that is what's going to make it a pedestrian friendly Corridor and I would be in 100% support of putting a developer incentive package behind find something like that because I've have a feeling that the reason nobody took us up on it is because well we're going to do this at our cost um if nobody else is going to do it how do I justify that but if we basically put a package forward to say hey everybody's going to do this kind of maybe at the same time but everybody's going to get the same benefit you might you might see some pay 10 grand to let us close that driveway I just I I think that's money we'll spent especially as we try to reimagine Lindsay Street Corridor and making it the Gateway of the University that it should be I mean it's it's not going to get there the way it designed right now you know the the the Dan Burton and yeah coming to town and oh yeah while we didn't agree with everything he he put in there we thought that one of the great things that came out of it was the walkable Street in the center median I think that just I we we totally as a staff supported those both those ideas and and went forward with them um as well as you know we put in the midblock crossings that that when we see the the right development and the right number of pedestrians we can convert those to and you know we designed those where you're facing track we did all the things with the The Refuge Island and all the things you're supposed to do there well that's another thing we've determined not to get off on a tangent here but on that walk is that Lindsay street blocks blocks are actually four times the size of Main Street blocks the main street blocks are about 400 feet long and the lindsy street blocks are close to, 1600 feet long and so those mid block Crossings are just I mean they're critical for that that reason alone so yeah we agreed and we were happy to to put that in as part of the design designed so in the future we weren't out there trying to back engineer it appreciate that yeah okay anything else that part Nash anything yeah those medians are awful Lindsay Street's awful that's it it used to be good but then we had there were too many traffic collisions along there before so yeah we've reduced them people are off the road now it's problem solved and you know I don't like to compare to Edmund really at all but uh ever since I was a kid I noticed that all the any time I go to Edmund I noticed all their arterial section line roads have medians they're landscaped and they don't have turn they don't have U-turn Lanes either you just got to go until you find the next turn in and so that was always something I thought looked nice and it seemed to control traffic a little bit you know up there so um yeah I would I would kind of wish we didn't do do the U-turn Lanes but I don't have a problem using them and I use them all the time so people used to go to classic 50s they used to crash in front into people that were coming out of home they're still there maybe not some other things okay they were if there's nothing else though I appreciate you staff and presentation and the information and I look forward to uh following up on some of the stuff at our upcoming meetings over the next few months so um if that's it then we'll go ahead and adjourn for

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