am I on okay it's 9:30 a.m. so we'll get started welcome to the April 18th 2024 meeting of the downtown design Review Committee my name is Justin Brandon and I am chair of the committee when called on applicants and speakers will come to the front Podium to speak only one person at a time should come to the podium do not approach the podium until vacated by a previous speaker speak into the microphone please and identify yourself and provide your address for the record when you begin speaking address your comments questions and testimony to the committee uh limit your comments to 3 minutes it is unnecessary to repeat uh testimony previously given by others citizens May address the committee on agenda items by responding to the chair's call for speakers during discussion on each item and signing the speakers log on the podium all comments must be relevant to the item the chair or presiding officer May in his or her discretion prohibited person from addressing the committee and or remove that person from council chambers if that person commits any disorderly or disruptive behavior please see the agenda for more information about these requirements if you're parked in the Sheridan Walker parking garage north of John Rex Elementary or in the arts district parking garage south of City Hall staff can provide a parking validation ticket to you the agenda and documents are located at https col.
Prim.com publicportal you would then select on the downtime design review committee meeting meeting then click on an agenda item and the relevant documents will come up below the item Keith will you please call roll Brandon here black here Jones here here have cor perfect uh first on the first on the meeting as approval of minutes if there is any discussion on those minutes like to make a motion motion to approve okay got a motion by Jones second second by blad think about names here for a second okay motion passes um item number three cases withdrawn there are none item number four continuous requests we have none item number five consent docket we have none um item number six case for individual cons consideration we have dtca D 23-54 at 400 North E gayor Laura department so this item is back before you you approved this particular project back in November and they have determined that they need to modify the cladding of the building which essentially is uh this particular material they're trying to replace is 75% of each of the buildings and per the ordinance uh if it's 20% or over I have to bring it back to the committee for consideration um so just lay of the land you have the elevated railroad track on the East you have Fourth Street on the North you have Third Street on the south you have EK Gaylord um on the west um and then as you continue North you have it becomes Broadway so I'm just going to kind of quickly go through these obviously I didn't take new slides you've seen these before um so you have uh a lot of older structures in the vicinity this is uh to the north across Fourth Street um and then this one to me is kind of cool because you have multiple buildings in and that is to the west across EK Gaylord and also across Broadway although you can't really see Broadway um so I'll I'll leave it on that originally back in 21 2021 I think some of you were on at the time you approved a project for this location that project had conditions that were never um addressed with revised drawings and so it expired before the ca was issued about the same time that one was expiring they submitted a new project uh which is the project you guys approved back in November which is two buildings uh and a parking lot on this piece of property there were several conditions and I've got them I don't need to they're a through F I don't need to read them all but they're in in the um staff report uh conditions of approval and at the time the buildings were to be clad in Brick and stucco and that is what the applicant had showed when they submitted it so um and I cite the part of the section of the code that talks about over 20% has to come back to you I also cite the section of the code and it's a guideline that talks about the percent of composite materials however as stated in the staff report that guideline does doesn't specifically reference multif family it references commercial buildings um and one could argue that Apartments would maybe fit more in with commercial buildings obviously more so than single family homes um and so what they're proposing is to replace all the stucco with two different styles a fiber cement siding the actual product uh specs was included in your packet um they're proposing that to be the white the brick is going to be white and that product is going to be white that they're using um I include a little information about fiber fiber cement siding it's come along way uh from decades ago when it first came out however staff is concerned with the p large amount that they want to use on this building I'm acknowledging there's been several projects that have been approved apartment projects that have been approved with this product um in most cases they've had multiple colors they've had multiple um styles and shapes so they get different looks um the mo one of the most recent ones that I ref ref is the muse which is at the southeast corner of fourth and chartel which is a fairly large apartment complex um however where all of those apartment buildings have been built in that area those buildings have a very modern aesthetic and the concern that we've got is when you look at this location this is not an area where there's a modern aesthetic on this side of the tracks there's a I mean the track tracks kind of give you a dividing line we have a lot of new construction that's gone on in Deep Deuce on the other side of the tracks um so there are alternative cladding materials and installation methods that replicate the look of the previously approved stucco that type of product might be more compatible with the architectural style of the building and the surrounding buildings in the historic automobile alley District so staff has suggested a condition that um talks about uh fiber there is a fiber cementitious product by the same company that is supposed to mimic the look of Stucco um I'm sure other companies make the same type of product and so staff is recommending if you approve it that you do it with the condition that the applicant Revis the proposed product to be a material that more closely approximates the appearance of the previously approved stucco and his architect compatible with the previously approved design this information is required to be submitted to staff prior to the issuance of the certificate of approval and we do have the applicant developer and we have an adjacent business owner property owner resident who also wants to speak thank you do you have any questions for Laura Laur do you remember and just doesn't have to be exact amount do you know how much of this kind of party board material that was used on the Muse just roughly you can ballpark it within 20% it's fine if you say so um casual I remember that you made them change some of the cladding on the East facade which is next to the condo development and they actually had to replace the fiber ctitious product and I think they had to add a metal because they they used metal on that building too so I really hesitate to throw out a percent because I I don't want to get the wrong one and I don't want you to land on it and say that's the percent you guys can do so I'm okay I'm sorry no worries thank you okay any other now they might know when the architect gets up here I don't know any other questions for Laura okay if the applicant want to speak on this item write my name down before I dig into my three minutes my name is Isaac Hines with Tradesman architectural Studios 500 North Broadway uh sweet 100 literally right across the street caddy corner from that building you see so this project as Laura mentioned was approved in November with stucco we like that it was a great product it's super durable it fits the area the issue we're running into is with the current labor market shortage stucco installers in an area of project of this scale do not exist in this state the one or two that we could manage to get a hold of the price was through the roof so it's it's an availability of a labor market issue so as a team we researched different materials and tried to find a way to find a material that was durable would last would look good and maintain the integrity and architecture of the area and as you see this here I want to spend a few seconds talking about the modern aesthetic The Muse is two blocks that way this is a super historic building proximity we're close but if you look at this picture right here you see an all glass building in the back you see a cladding on that building right there that aren't necessarily in context with historic character of what we see downtown personal opinion is variety adds Beauty to cities this is something we all need the project type affordable housing in downtown Oklahoma City I don't think any of us disagree that is needed and in addition to that we want to make Oklahoma City look better as well so we've maintained the brick facade and The Pedestrian scale at the street level because the feel of walking through downtown is something that's getting better every day and we want to maintain that so we worked very hard to keep that material down low find a suitable durable material up top that would best approximate this and as lur mentioned they're used in The Muse they're using this we picked materials that already existed in the city we're not trying to bring something new something crazy this is material we use it's great the other thing about that that I wanted to talk about was that the only comment I had and I chatted at length with Laura about her suggestion to go to these large format panels spent some time researching this chatting with the company that makes these panels one of the prominent features of this building that you've all seen is that rounded corner at Fourth which is beautiful and draws you into that Alley we're creating in that pedestrian Zone and that pedestrian scale and that sense of place the large format panels can't be installed on a radius so that that Clause would dictate or necessitate an architectural change not just a material change which is one of the reasons we pitched the horizontal and the shake style look the other reason we pitched that is historically in architecture in major cities and historic buildings they're broken down into you've got pedestrian scale you've got building scale you've got City scale so that's why we step these down low we have brick the nice detailing so when you're walking it feels like that you step up to level two we call that one type of sighting which is hor Al and the scale starts to break down as you step up classically and historically that's a detail that's done whether it's modern contemporary pick your style breaking down that scales we try and maintain that and keep that switching it all to one style would alter the look not necessarily be bad it would be how we play with the joints and the rtics the biggest concern is the Red Corner so what we're asking is that if we go this route we explore the use of materials that are already used we paint them white we keep it as you see in that photo right right there that's that's a whole lot of beige a lot of white so the interest comes from the planning the landscaping and The Pedestrian scale we haven't altered that modified that changed that in any way shape or form the forms still responds to the adjacent architecture we feel it's a good fit it's durable and it is the next best option before you have to switch to something else due to labor market conditions any questions for me any questions for the applicant might not have been fair for me to land just on that one um so I probably should also uh point out that to the north across Fourth Street is what you see on this slide so we have a historic building that is on the corner I do have an architectural question yeah yeah I think it I think it is for you um because I do have some concern about well and I and I welcome the conversation so let's let's have it the hard the hard conversations are always the ones that we need to get to the best answers um initial concerns about the product were were probably in alignment with everything that was discussed but the corner was really elevated because whenever I've looked at any kind of installation of cementitious products over time any inconsistency in the substrate does start to Telegraph through that and you start to see subtle whatever that Nuance of the of the original facade was and in a cementitious product on a curve those linear boards I'm curious how that would perform long term and I'm I'm just C is there a successful installation at this tip of a radius for this type of a cementitious product there are when it comes to the the shake and the the lap sighting that we pitched for levels two and then three up and that is a very specific I called the technical services and we're chatting with them about that exact issue and the to the to the point on telegraphing the large format panels that replicate stuck and look like that graphing happens at a greater percentage than it does on the others and in addition to that what I was informed of is that in order of telegraphing coming through it's you've got the large panels are the worst the lap sighting is next and then the shake is is the best and that's because the horizontal it draws those strong Shadow lines and so anything that telegraphs vertically is kind of hidden and since they they stagger it hides it the shake look since they're individual and they there's of all the depth changes in the play is substantially less and almost not visible most of the time is what I'm being told there are examples of radiusing those two projects on a radius that's slightly tighter than this whether that's a door frame or a vertical radius they have examples of that they've shown how to do it it's not I chatted with them like yeah we we've never explored that but Architects came back to us and taught us how to do that now we can give you advice on how to do that that answer that sufficiently the conversation okay all right thank you thank you good morning Tim Strange Rose Rock Development Partners 301 Northwest 13th thank you Mr chairman committee this project uh has been underway for uh over four years it's been very difficult to get across the Finish Line um to get closed and under construction I don't have to tell you about the headwinds that this project and all projects are facing today with construction cost supply chain labor shortages and then interest rates on top of all of that so we've been trying to thread the needle on this project to get it to get it closed it's been very complicated the uh Capital stack is very complicated we're still working on that there's still some moving Parts but any additional cost to this project is going to be a hardship to us um we're constrained uh on our debt service coverage uh at a 115 that's the lowest level any investors or lenders will accept um and then we're also constrained on the top side by our rents and we're building an affordable project 100% affordable 60% of Ami average a very nice project uh for downtown Oklahoma City that anybody would be happy to live in and so uh would ask for your consideration in in this I know it's not your problem but it's our problem uh to figure out uh and to get it closed but again you know any additional cost that comes about because of this will be burdensome to us and I just ask for your consideration in that thank you very much any questions okay anyone from the audience okay there we go hi uh chairperson and committee I think actually the last time I was here was on this project know maybe it was firefighters but anyway it's good to see you I I'm I will say before I start my remarks that I appreciate what you do here it's a volunteer position and you try your very best to make good decisions so thank you for that I have also been on that side of the shoe sir would you would your name name and address I'm sorry Anthony mcder I was just getting into that I was just getting into that that's a f minute introduction right there uh so I'm going to read from notes uh uh because I think this is a a a I want to make a good argument before I ask you to make a decision so my name is Anthony mcdermid uh I live in Maywood at 100 place and I office in the CBD across the street from the subject property not to put too fine a point on it but actually as I come to think about this project this project is in the CBD it is downtown but it is in the central business district which is an important distinction to make there are no I'm going to say Hardy Board okay rather than cementitious comp composite whatever Hardy Board there are no projects with Hardy Board in the CBD let's be clear on that uh so I'm an architect I'm a planner I'm an urbanist I'm also a developer uh I started my firm in 1988 downtown Oklahoma City when we were the only architect downtown in fact we were some of the only people downtown so fortunately that has changed we moved into 415 North Broadway in 000 and after commuting from Norman for several years I moved downtown so I've lived downtown worked downtown for decades uh I was the first resident in the CBD and I was the first resident in the CBD and now I live just the other side of the tracks from the subject property in the middle of Maywood which is four city blocks Maywood is four city blocks Eric lives there I live there and a thousand there are a thousand homes in that Fort block area it is clearly the most dense residential area in Oklahoma City as is appropriate for downtown uh the the sight in question is the last contiguous 3.2 Acres of undeveloped land in the CBD and I would say conservatively valued between 8 to10 million uh and I can provide the comps for that if you would like them uh for purposes of scale it it's a city block it's 3.2 acres is a city block uh this is the third proposed project on this site in recent memory I remember the first was a proposal for a new building for the Chamber of Commerce uh it was a relatively small football-shaped four-story office building sitting in the middle of 3.2 Acres with surface parking it was a very very residential in concept I protested it I was here sitting on my own and over here was the Chamber of Commerce Clay Bennett uh uh Mr Nichols all the Chamber of Representatives and it was clearly not an urban project it was it was a it was a Suburban project in the CBD which is why I protested it it it it didn't conform to a single guideline of the DD of the downtown design Review Committee uh anyway it died it died a natural death in 2008 for very obvious reasons the second proposal was for a high-rise residential project on the North part of the site and the proposal included the okura parcel which was then on the south side of the site okura basically killed the idea because they didn't want a lower rise element on the south side of the site uh they subsequently bought the site for $4.4 million so they bought half the site for $4.4 million and I tell you all this to give you context for what I'm about to share with you uh if you fast forward the latest okura RFP for the site uh was contested there were several proposals and the winning proposal is part of the proposal that you see today so uh I had issues with it many Urban Design issues with it a lot of my neighbors had Urban Design issues with it but at the end of the day it was approved by this committee it was three buildings and structured parking uh and I can't remember the number of units in it but it was obviously it was three buildings this is two buildings and the third building was bigger than the other two so it was a it it pretty much covered the site all right uh the proposal now is for 200 affordable apartments and one over an acre and a half of surface parking so we're back to that Suburban development type now uh as we all know the nation has turned its attention to housing crisis and affordable housing has become like the Mantra of many political elected political officials so affordable housing has now the idea of affordable housing which is much needed everybody in the nation knows that the idea though has become politically imbrace and now it has opened up various funding streams grants low interest interest loans uh gifts and uh has made affordable housing projects for a developer a much more practical proposition okay this project so I dug into it a little bit this project is is advertised to be a $58 million project and that's published and also been presented to okura that did not include land cost I does not include land cost so we're talking about a land a piece of property that's worth 8 to10 million it's arguable but uh and $ 58 million project cost for 200 Apartments it works out to be somewhere between 300,000 and $350,000 a key the capital stack the the capital stack was presented to Ura I looked at it I shared it with developer friends I shared it with apartment developers they all shook their heads and said this doesn't make any sense for for to put this much money into 200 Apartments as Noble as affordable apartments are in the CBD supported by 200 surface parking spaces I think that ship has sailed unless I can talk to elected officials to kill the project which I hope to do uh but in my opinion this is the wrong project it's in the wrong place and it significantly devalues property values and expectations in the Oklahoma City's CBD it's very important to understand this is in the central business district so uh without going into the capital stack and the developers fees and all that which I can go into if You' like and they're here so each of you have seen this proposal and you've approved the design you've approved it so uh why I'm asking you this morning is not to further devalue the built environment by allowing this material and just hold firm uh it's the most expensive comp it's the most expensive apartment complex in the City by far and it's using the cheapest possible exterior cladding material so I would ask you to consider to uh not approve this request for party board slash cementitious composite you know whatever and that's that's it that's my piece but I'm open to any questions you might want to ask any questions okay okay this might be back for the applicant thank you sir um or for the architect um what is the kind of life cycle for this material um I've seen it just using a residential application and for a project that was built in 2011 and within 10 years I think you you've seen its age whether that being just kind of like a mismatch and um between you know the end of one piece of the sighting to another um so just making sure that this this product kind of looks clean for and and presentable for um not only residents but the rest of Oklahoma City for you know hundreds of years or you know 50 plus so so to address your your concern directly you're right when there when it is been residential there is it and to one of the points from somebody else mentioned as well this is commercial construction not residential there are different tolerances different grades and with residential Le architects involved part of what I do in construction Administration is making sure things are constructed right to avoid those issues as to the durability and longevity of this material it's been around longer than I've been alive I'm pretty sure Anthony's used it in some of his projects so it's kind of a misnomer to pretend we don't know what it is it's been around for a long time sure it is basically I'm going to I'm going to boil it down real simply it is essentially concrete that's formed into shapes and panels and descri and so the durability of it is inherently in the material it's one of the oldest build oldest building materials in existence since people started being Architects so the material durability is great I the developers we are all committed to a quality project and supervision through construction Administration to avoid those issues about uh improper joining improper fastening we none of us want that to happen this is a great project to the comment about this being the cheapest material that was just stayed for the most expensive project I'm sure um Tim Strange will speak to the fact that this is not the most expensive apartment building but I want to speak to the fact that this is the comment that this is the cheapest material we could possibly substitute that is a misnomer and a falsehood there are other materials allowed in this area ephus being one of them which I think we all hate and I am trying to avoid that at all costs it gets destroyed by hail it gets I I don't want to go there there we as a group actively sought to find a product that could be installed be just as durable and we all agree to maintain it take care of it to the comment about there are no none of these in the CBD the district is the downtown Design District CBD is not split out of that of the map the district as a whole encompasses that in the district that I am in and the guidelines I adhere to is the same district that the Muse that was mentioned earlier was in we pulled those we're not trying to recreate the wheel or do something new these are materials that have been used and are being introduced and the fear of change is something that people always have to overcome I can promise you that as a group I know these gentlemen they are committed to not only building affordable housing which is Affordable for the people that work and live in downtown but they are committed to taking care of that this is not a Fly by Night operation I think everybody in this room knows the gentleman standing behind me way more than you know me we are a product of Oklahoma City we love it we're committed to a quality project to address any issues you have with that is there is there a specific year in in kind of in [Music] your that you've seen in in your profession is there a year in which there needs these hard Society needs to be maintained is there like that makes sense it it does and that that's a valid question as we mentioned we're going to paint it because you know we want that that monolithic that white the vibe we're going for architecturally so with anything that you paint paint is a maintenance and it's also a protective membrane on that material cement cementitious fiber siding does not weather like vinyl siding like wood siding it's resistant to rot mold insects mildew take your pig that's in the product material itself painting it and maintaining that would be just the same as if it were ephas if it were anything else a painted substrate the paint is your rate limiting factor on maintenance and as long as you maintain that the substrate behind it is protected in addition to its natural resistant characteristics anyway so I would say whatever a painting schedule is once every what 5 10 years take a pick somewhere in that ballpark but the material itself if maintained and taken care of should last the life of the project thank you thank you Tim Strange again uh my partner Sean Smith with Belmont companies is here Belmont has developed over 3,000 units in the southwest and they self-manage and furthermore we're going to own this project for at least 15 years we have to because of the affordability requirements so that's why we believe in this material and the longevity of it and we're going to be living with it for at least of the next 15 years uh the construction costs are what they are um this is 2024 we all know what U the situation is we have value engineered the heck out of this project uh down to the point where we're just down to the last you know dime really in terms of our project cost um I don't I don't know what to tell you you know about that it's just it you know with the constraint on the bottom line with the debt coverage ratio and the constraint on the top line with the affordability uh the affordable rents um essentially you know again we're trying to thread the needle um on that also one other point is that this is Phase One of a two-phase project uh we did start out at over 300 units initially it was infeasible to do 300 units and a structured um a parking garage so we had to drop back and do two buildings 214 units surface parking but that's just phase one phase two will be the third building and the parking garage at some point in the near future so those are our plans any questions thank you any questions down this specific material quoted has a 30-year warranty and a 50-year shelf life yeah thank you I do appreciate your concerns about the material and the longevity the material I think it's speculative at best uh as Tim said it's a 15-year project for them uh bricks Stone concrete glass we know that they last a long time this material I mean there are no guarantees and as far as the second phase I mean I've heard the pitches for this project I don't know how you displace 200 parking spaces to build a second phase um you know there there has to be a strategy for that but you know on a site like this I don't know how you build a parking garage and another building and displace 200 parking spaces at the same time I mean seems to me does not make a viable project it sounds good but in Practical terms I just don't see how you can do it so there's that uh these guy I know These Guys these are you know this is not a personal thing for me I am just that and to Isaac's point the CBD is the CBD yes it's part of the downtown uh area The Wider area but the CBD is important it is special it is the most valuable real estate in Oklahoma City I mean I have under contract three City lots for a million dollars that's how valuable the CBD is and I do not think this is the correct project I'm going to I don't think the original project was correct project but this project has deep deep flaws as a you know 200 apartment units in the central business district I'm really really concerned about it and a sea of parking thank you thank you that ship is that ship is sailed I understand that but I am asking you to consider that if this thing it does get built that it's built to last as long as it possibly can and it's sticks it's woodframe right with Hardy Board that's a fact any qu any comments from committee members Tim Strange again uh we will own the project for at least 15 years probably forever um and we do have a parking strategy for phase two we're partnering with the YMCA they currently have about 50 parks on the site they will be moving those Parks into the garage they own 500 space garage they had some spaces lease to Heartland but Hartland is only about 40% return you know occupancy to the building at this point so there should be plenty of parking in that building uh also parking occupancies are below 80% in the CBD so there's available parking whether it's the Heartland garage or some other parking uh surface parking or structured parking available to move those folks in uh temporarily until we finish the garage thank you than you so uh uh for me I wholeheartedly support the project The Entity that I work for believes this is one of those kinds of developments that we need to see in the downtown Oklahoma City Corp area but my responsibility here as a member of the downtown design review district is to make sure that the project complies with the guidelines that have been set for us to review the staff has recommended that they be involved in the final approval for this project when the materials that are going to be submitted are decided I have in my years on this uh board been very pleased with the diligence of the staff and ensuring that everything that is done possible to comply with those guidelines are being done so I just wanted more more time Laura is to just get the staff's concerns and the reasoning behind us giving approval for you guys to approve the final material before the issuance of the certificate of approval obviously when I wrote this and made the recommendation yes I found the product online I'm not an architect I always wanted to be but I'm not an architect um and so I really know nothing about that product I had a conversation with the project architect about a I was concerned about the curve on the corner and what which product they were going to put which style they were going to put on the curve um you typically don't see horizontal lap sighting on well typically we see it on houses and we don't see it very much other than houses and that was one of the styles that they were proposing um obviously that would also be a concern of ours on the curve so we were making this suggestion it's just a suggestion as a way that we could have discussion about it they have indicated that this product that we were referencing comes in big sheets big panels and it doesn't work on the curve so with that being said obviously with there was a lot of homework that would have to be done so if the committee says what you're looking for is the same end appearance and that's what you want I mean you have some choices obviously you've heard from them that they're saying they can't afford the stucco which is what the current approval is for um there are other products out there he mentioned one that definitely we're not a fan of when he mentioned epas we've had that conversation here as well um and in fact I believe you had that conversation on the last project that was approved at this location because it had epas up higher but it had epas um I think this one has some detailing if I'm not mistaken cornices and stuff that is ephas but they weren't using it as one of the primary wall cladding materials which which is great because we prefer it only to be used as detailing so is your question does Staff feel comfortable working with them to come up with something or no I it I I I I feel that the expertise is there and I know you'll do your due diligence and meeting with others to research what other recommended materials are going to be engaged I just wanted to hear that you guys did come up with that as a way in order to try to find a solution to the issue of the uh stco not being available as originally approved that was it for me I am ready to move on the motion but I am the AT large member so I am probably the least knowledgeable of anyone that is on this board but I want to ensure that we do remain uh at least honest in our approach and committed to the guidelines and I do feel comfortable with giving the staff the ability to work out a solution that meets the guidelines as we originally approved them I just want to add to what Laura said I think and as you see in the staff report staff had concerns about the proposed product for multiple reasons one is the product itself that the guidelines don't in general support the use of this product at this percentage of the facade yes we've approved it on other projects um but that doesn't mean we have to approve it every time it's a case-by casee review and we know that there are concerns about the product in general and its quality as well as many other products that the guidelines call out as being allowed in a limited quantity um the other concern that staff had that we've talked about today as well is the um appearance of the product and um the design of the product as has been stated staff didn't feel that a lap siding product was appropriate on a building of this design maybe if it was a completely different design that would would fit um but on the building as designed in the area where it's proposed we didn't think that that profile that the two profiles of siding were a compatible product that's why we landed on saying you know a potential condition would be that something other than stucco is allowed but that it should still approximate the look of the stucco now there may be other options and I think based on the discussion I've heard today um it may be something that does need to come back to the committee because some of those concerns are very specific to the product and to the quality of it um and you all may want to see it again I think that um we identified one particular product that is comparable to what they had proposed but that more closely approximates the look that had been previously approved but there are many other options out there um so the committee may want to say we want to see other Al Alternatives um it's just one other possible path to take I think one of the other considerations that I keep I wrestle with is the fact I remember when this came the last time and there was a really healthy discussion about the use of ephas as some ornamentation um and it was it was it was a it was enough of a component of the discussion that it it it really brought a lot of considerations out whenever we were trying to decide what the vote would be I'm thinking back to that conversation if that would have been ephas plus cementitious sighting I think that that would have resulted in I think we need to pause and come back and see what our options are at the time of that particular meeting I don't know that there's I I agree for me it still is the corner I think that the corner is the part the radius part is the thing that I could see it not ending the way that everybody thinks it might and at that point it's done and you're you're you've got it so I'm I'm just concerned about the corner that's that's my that's my biggest concern Tim Strange again um appreciate that um we are on a on a timeline though I did not make that um clear earlier uh we we are in the process of finalizing our construction loan um we do have our tax credits in place um we are shopping our loan between three different lenders and we're trying to close by the end of May early June so if coming back causes a delay that could be detrimental to us in terms of you know trying to get closed here as soon as we can I appreciate that so I am going to go ahead and move that we approve the application on the basis that the project complies with the regulations and guidelines of the downtown Design District zoning ordinance as referenc in section c and d of the staff Report with the condition that the applicant revised the proposed product to be a material that is more closely approximate the appearance of the previously approved stucco and is architecturally compatible with the previously approved design this information is required to be submitted to staff prior to the issuing so the certificate of approval before that did have any other comments I think I'm sitting here struggling because yes there's a time constraint on closing alone but we have maybe Oklahoma City's largest continuous track of land that is crucially important to the long-term health and wellness and development of downtown Oklahoma City and I think back to the three building scheme with the parking garage the X Heroes clad in almost all brick with a beautiful gradiented blend and we've rolled back to an all cement stucco two building version and now we've rolled back to a two building lap siding product and I'm just struggling with what the next roll back is going to be that could be administratively approved or I just I struggle with that personally and um I know we can't take into account the the three building scheme and I know 2024 is very different than 2019 but something feels not right about that to me so just as a reminder staff can only do an administrative approval on something that's less than 20% change so that was one of the first questions you saw in your package he gave me the math because I'm all about the math I'm like show me the math and I'm like it's 75% of each building clearly it's over 20% so if it had been less than that if it the math had yeah of course yeah so keep that in mind something that is less than 20% and that meets the guidelines and the intent of the previous approval so even if it was a 3% change if staff felt like it was not consistent with what this committee had previously agreed to um I was going to make one other comment um I don't know that the motion that's in your staff report works now because I don't think the applicant has agreed to that condition um so staff can be comfortable administratively reviewing all sorts of things but if the applicant doesn't want to make that revision then we've got to come up with another path the the only other thing I would like to say it's Isaac Hines again to your point Eric is to the first point about further roll backs and it piggy backs on to what Tim said we're ready to close we're ready to go we're in the money this is good to the comment that we had about you know the suggestion from Laura go with this large panel format that best resembles stucco and we keep getting hung up on lap siding that was like you know a partion and we also had Cedar shake the material I don't think I haven't heard anybody question the durability of the material there are 1520 different profiles we know the material is in the budget that's what we're changing is the material now the profile being that you know that seems to be what everybody is arguing right now is I don't like the lap siding do I go with a flat panel do I go with it's I have to architecturally what we don't want to do is to your point Mr blat the corner is a very strong element I am sensitive to that I'm addressing I agree that that is what bookends automobile alley and makes it feel amazing and coming into that alley that radius draws you in from a city planning standpoint from an architectural standpoint it is dynamic it is strong it makes a statement it is beautiful the material I think is the only nobody I haven't heard a single comment that I don't agree with this material other than Mr mcder back here so if we're just discussing profile is there a way to approve this and say with this material and then we just work on selecting a profile that not only works architecturally to maintain the Integrity of the corner and gets the durability and keeps the project moving forward that's that's what I would say to your comment Mr Schmidt about that is that I I'm open to different profiles but the material itself to me and to address your point about what's the next cut I don't nobody on the team wants to compromise any further in any addition any different material not profile different material is a further reduction in quality time and increase in cost thank you sorry one question for you so on this rendering that's been submitted in the application that is is this how you're intending that this material is being used yeah so if you see that you'll see the lap sighting and the reason we chose those is if you remember the original proposal FL two had rustication joints horizontally every so many so we did the lap sighting to keep that and it goes back to my first comment about breakdown in scale we have a heavily detailed ground floor Podium you go up one scale we had that then it broke down further with larger rustication joints so that was our mentality in our thinking is that lap siding can replicate horizontal rustication joints and then the cedar Shake will look monolithic and blend in and so playing with those two and how we break that down with scale is what we were doing those are the two profiles we picked the material is the material so so are you all looking at what he's talking about some of you might be I believe I am on the screens we are uh I I trust you yeah okay I think he just gave it back over to us Katie if you wanted to pull that up and and I want to note that that provision in the motion is about the material and I think they do a good job and if we need to make it stronger about compliance with the architectural design for the project so you were talking when so the first floor up to the first horizontal line band is Brick correct yes ma' and then between the two bands which is the second floor that's where you're doing the horizontal the lap sighting correct and then above that so starting at the floor of the third floor and up is that where you're doing the jingle so when we first got your comment yes that's what we were playing with is that level two you you can see look between those two windows right there so you see all the horizontal rustics that was to mimic the control joint pattern we had in Stucco we are trying to actively maintain the look the large and you can see that they actually both look horizontal because you could you could switch them either way but what we're trying to do is pick two different panels of a durable material that we can readily get there's installers available and replicate those looks and change the joint patterns level two has a unique joint pattern because as you move up scale breaks down go up to three and we're open to discussing other patterns but the large format that was suggested you know in her suggestion we recommend approval based on this that particular profile that they picked doesn't work so if all were're arguing is which profile we go with all of these panels can replicate the texture and feel of Stucco because stucco can have rustication joints however I choose to design them I could put one every two inches if I felt like making a weird grid so this replicates that in not only durability but how it looks and how you play with that breakdown and patterning I think my thank you for the detail and the color for me it's I have not seen this in other than in the rendering and other than and and I don't know if I feel comfortable making this decision without seeing something that has been either in a different city in the same kind of facet or just some other example of how you plan on using this if that makes sense so you know especially with its location especially with it being in our purview of the downtown design I think it can look really good on a rendering but I don't know what that looks like in real life would be my concern for me I just have one more thing to say which is that I appreciate your diligence in researching the material this committee's purview is not about affordable housing we all love affordable housing right it sounds great it's a good thing we all want it it's not about affordable housing or the developers timeline on financing the project it's about how it looks and how it looks for the next hundred years the buildings around this building have been there for a hundred years the pioneer building the 405 the Oklahoma building I mean this is right between some really important buildings in Oklahoma City in the central business district so I don't want you to judge on the merits of affordable or affordable housing it's about the guidelines the way it looks its durability its compatibility within its context thank you two last points um I highly encourage you to look up this has been used in major cities across the us but we mentioned at the start of this The Muse The Muse used the two products I picked are used on the Muse I picked those specifically because they had already been approved to try and make your lives easier second point point the CBD is not in the purview of the ddrc the ddrc is the downtown Design District I agree it has weight it has significance but if we're going to try and limit scope let's keep it in the ddrc yeah I think again my my concern would be kind of the corner in it in this rounded kind of area um I don't know think it's a if this is going to be something that last and is at a great corner and our district and our Design District then I want to make sure to get this right regardless of timel so we have a motion that's hanging out there and we don't have a second yet believe we have someone who wants to speak yeah Sean Smith Belmont development company uh I just you know wanted to reiterate some of the things that Isaac and Tim have already said in this discussion I haven't heard what the solution is I mean I've heard that you know we're not sure that we like this or what it's going to look like but I mean we've got to get this done the city decided that they want affordable housing here we've put together a plan to do that obviously you all know that you know when we first came in with uh stucko as the recommendation that that's kind of where we start then we have to get bids for that and and that's here we are here where we are now I mean we've gotten the bids and and that just doesn't work so we've got to find a solution that does work this is a is a is a great product as Isaac has said it's going to ow us to move forward with this housing any delays is just going to make this project even more difficult uh as you know interest rates are you know fluctuating and and increasing uh as we speak and uh you know building cost is going up so we really really need to get this project moving and approved and so I just wanted to make that point again appreciate what you all are doing and concerns that you have uh but you know this is a balancing act and as as all developments are and that's what we're doing here we're tring trying to solve this balancing act so thank very much so uh Mr mcder is correct this is not about affordable housing and it's not about your financial timeline I totally agree with that when we this project came up before we looked at the architectural design and looked at its compliance with the guidelines and the requirements of this review and we thought it me that where I guess I sit is the the big change is we're not able to do the stucco as we originally proposed so the question is do we feel that using something different still meets with what we approved for this particular project I feel comfortable that the options that are presented work the question is what is the process do we go about in order to approve that I'm also okay with the staff having the ability understanding that the requirements for that project have been approved and if this material doesn't meet that then we can't approve this so for others it's where do we go with this I I do think this is where the balancing act really goes back to the architect you've got an architect who has threaded the needle on a difficult project on a difficult site with a difficult budget with a difficult timeline and this all lands right back to solve this particular item I don't think it's necessarily this commission's purpose to solve an item that is truly an architectural item to solve about finding the right material and the budget that meets with if if the geometry of the building was different this might have been an easier discussion for me I'm terrified of a corner facing west it's going to take West heat it could be something that we didn't want and I've seen that happen in the past I wouldn't want to be the one that said okay without at least saying allow your architect to be what he can be and assist in identifying in I mean I realize it's a tight fashion I'm willing to go with work with staff so that you can still achieve your timeline it's really it's really his it and I I've been asked we've been asked all asked to be in that same shoe it's just it's a tight spot for us to just give a blanket approval whenever it's a spot wherever I think it could be very challenging so I'd like for your architect to have the opportunity to shine yeah and solve this so to to your point Mr blat uh you know I I've had in-depth conversations and you're right this is threading a needle I've been working on this project for six years and if I didn't believe in what I'm trying to do I wouldn't be here right now but to that point when she recommended the flat panel I'm okay with that on the entire like the bulk of the project except for this curve so a suggest a possible suggestion be to accept that and then I just work with her on the curve it the flat panel won't work I know for you I'm telling you I wouldn't do it it would look terrible immediately afterwards and knowing that the flat panel would look terrible immediately afterwards is exactly why I'm concerned that this product I know it's it maybe there's been some success installations but it seems like we are putting the wrong material on the wrong geometry and to your point you're exactly right what we're arguing about everything else they're all valid topics and we all need to discuss them because we're all trying to make the city better the main point is that I switched a material from stucco to cementitious fiber cementitious fiber is allowed I'm just over the percent quantity so approval of the material I think can happen and then I just work with staff on the profiles and the detailing to your point because that's my job that's what I do yeah yeah you are right you've also got a couple of other wrinkles about the ephas that came in that was the original compromise that got us to the point where we could allow the stucco with so I realize it's it's a difficult challenge I know that there's a solution any anything difficult is worth it this is worth it yeah we can have two kinds of hard we can either have the hard of finding the right material or we can have the infinitely long hard of looking at the wrong material yes we get to choose which hard we have I'd like to go through the hard of finding the right material and then executing it and then everybody gets to live with it afterwards and I legitimately feel like this is the right material it's just how we detail it thank you what is our current motion so there is a motion and and Gary read what I had in the staff report so let me just say that that really targets that particular type of that product which is what looks like stucco that penalized that doesn't necessarily allow them to have other profiles as part of that approval based on the way this is worded and we've heard everybody talk about the way the stule product is it's in big sheets which won't work on the Curve I'm open I'm open for modifications I I personally feel that the motion accomplishes what needs to happen but I know that it requires the staff working with the architect to find what that solution is other members of the board have to feel comfortable with that process if you want it to come back that is I'll withdraw and we can do that but I believe that we're close and I think everybody is trying to accomplish the same thing it just needs to be a conversation that needs to be happening immediately so typically if there's a condition we make sure the applicant's okay with the condition if somebody wants to continue it we make sure the applicants is okay with that we've heard from them that they're not okay with continuing it and so we need to see if is the applicant agreeable to the condition the condition being that the applicant revises the proposed product to be a material that more closely approximates the appearance of the previously approved stucco and is architecturally compatible with the previously approved design this information is required to be submitted to staff prior to the issurance of a certificate of approval so is the applicant agreeable to that condition we are agreeable to that just understand that I'm going to have to figure out and work on how to detail this corner and make that work but the condition for 90 90 to 95% of the building we are agreeable with so any change I have in the future would be less than the 20% she mentioned that can be worked with through staff correct thank you so I I what I'm hearing from the committee is a lot of concern about exactly how this is going to look and exactly how it's going to be executed I'm also not hearing 100% confidence in the proposed product I might be wrong on that but I'm hearing still some doubts about whether the proposed product is appropriate at least for the entire Project based on the conversation I've heard to this point I would not be comfortable with this being delegated to staff because I don't feel like we have an agreement I don't feel like we have clear direction from the committee from what the applicant's comfortable with um I think we need to hone in a lot more specificity on exactly what the committee wants to see from staff before this is a staff approval if if this was going to come back I realized that there's no desire to delay but what's the tight time frame to be on the very next the tight time frame is if it comes back next month we need everything next Tuesday is that the is that the LA I realize there's the date and then there's the date I'm asking the question that I'm not supposed to ask the next meeting is 16th what I would say to put words in Laura's mouth and sign her up for stuff she doesn't want me to sign her up for is this staff report is written we definitely don't need three weeks to go back in and say they're going to do this um you know we've reviewed this project extensively right now we're talking about some very fine details and products um I think we could definitely work with them on timing to get May 29 Provisions in um well May 29th would be it if we're talking about a May 16th DDR I'm sorry April 29th yeah April 29th yeah April a April 29th and would that allow you to keep your JY well actually we how about we could land on May 1st that's a Wednesday yeah May Day yeah would that allow you to keep your schedule and I realize that I problem is you know until we finalize this we can't finalize cost and we can't finalize financing so I mean whatever delay is a is a delay day for day to our project that's problematic is there is there a solution in the middle here that's a an approval conditional on and I don't know I don't have an answer for you but conditional on something that allows us to stay on track be pointing in this direction trying to finalize and close as soon as we can that's that's what I'm asking and I don't know the answer that is the is the problem with the stucco because of the amount of Stucco because of the height of Stucco is they couldn't they were that right what I heard him say was they couldn't they had a hard time finding the Craftsman to do it and so when they finally found some their prices were through the roof but it was through the roof because of some component of this project so stucko stucko is a very old building material you Technic you get this four coat scrp great it's awesome love it we could only find two people that were even willing to travel to the state to do a project this size to give you an example of how difficult it's been I'm renovating the old Bank First Tower for harlo we had to have somebody come and just repair stucko window sofits and it took me four weeks to find somebody to patch a s it it is technically infeasible to find somebody to physically do that and because those two guys are like well I can do it they get to charge whatever they want right and that's not something that as Architects we should be in a habit of being held to extortionist for lack of a better phrase so we chose for materials that were allowed we exceeded the quantities we agree with their recommendation for 95% of the building and to Tim's point we're trying to avoid any Poss POS delays so I would look for recommendation to if if staff recommended approving it and to your point uh Katie you know we're we're arguing about minutia and we're aring about the corner Which is less than 20% of the site so if you were to ask me what my recommendation would be it was approve it based on staff's recommendation and then work with staff on the corner to come back and obviously we won't get a COO till we satisfy not only staff but you guys as well did that answer your question Mr Black and what I was going to say is I I would be real concerned and hesitant about additional revisions to the cladding given that we're currently dealing with 75% of the cladding because he was saying oh if we keep it Le less than 20 Laura you can do it and I could I that doesn't mean I necessarily would because of all this discussion we've had and the concern um so committee m is this something that you would want to see back here I'm okay with the motion I I think it has to I think it has to come back okay so do you need to change our motion no I withdraw it because there's no way it's G to pass okay the Dilemma is if there if it's if it doesn't work to come back and we always ask so a continuous would have to be by request the other option is a denial which we don't want to do because then it really kicks it out further okay so I'll say a denial would be a denial of the revision they still have a valid ca for a project it would just be yes sending them back to the drawing board if they still need to change if if my dream position is you the the stco finds a way to work I realize it's been difficult to find a way for it to work that's my my dream answer is that during the time period between now and whenever it would have to come back that there's a way to find for the stco to work because that's easy it it um um anything else on the corner is challenging I'm not a Hu I I I've used this product and I I see its place I'm not a huge fan of it downtown I'm I'm not I realize what we're doing and I know that we've used it in the past this is in particular instance especially the cedar Shake part that's the part that and from a pro you said profiles Cedar Shake on this building seems way out of character putting the horizontal piece um on the radius is the part that's the the bigger concern um what are our options so I think first thing is you need to find out from the applicant if they're willing to continue all or part of their requests because if they're not and they want it voted up or down that that's their decision and so then that would tell you all if they're not willing to continue any piece of it then you you all have the option to look at what was submitted and either approve it or not and you'd be willing to take something on the 1 of May to be on the May agenda yes because right now I don't have anything else on that agenda yeah so is there any willingness from the applicant to go back look at this material come up with what we discussed on any other material that's like a sucko yeah I'm just saying I'm making sure that I'm saying the correct correct things to the applicant is what I'm asking and for this to be in by May 1st so to answer your question are our preference would be to get conditional approval and come back and work with staff and Laura any delays in this project as they said are not only because as Tim mentioned and we're not going to get into the details because it's not your purview the stack on this how we're doing it the financing the mechanism there are timelines associated with every other agency and entity that we have and when we had approval a while ago we were great everybody's rocking and rolling any further delays I mean the impacts could be a domino or a daisy chain situation between not only the capital stack but the finan but the so what I would request is that a conditional approval based on their condition and I'm willing to come back with a piece of it it seems like everybody's stuck on this corner condition is there a way to do that and I'll just say if you look at the application and those attachments they were submitted on the 20th which was he was talking to me on the phone we were trying to get everything in so that was actually the day after the last deadline so it's not that they missed a deadline or anything so what they've experienced is the shortest time to get to this meeting so far I don't know what more I can possibly say except for based on our histories and how we have operated in the past I believe this Falls with within the framework that we've operated and I get that there are some potentials as far as problems that could arise from this decision but again and it may be unfair to the staff and if it is I apologize up front I just have found the staff to be very competent and committed to exercising what it is that we're wanting to see done within their work so I'm comfortable with that dialogue and those conversations to keep the project moving and if it doesn't work and they're not able to come up with what has been discussed by the staff with us the staff I don't believe would proceed knowing that yeah if we also have staff who stated that they would want more color and Direction based off of our conversation so it's and I think y'all need to provide that yeah guys I'm just a lowly guy I have no expertise in this I'd love to help facilitate I don't know enough and that's kind of my you know I think this is a this is something that's new to me my profession and so I'm trying to lean on my my Architects here that the and this product in in in situations like this in the past the cement siding portion was restricted to the center part and not the parts that were on the perimeter that's that's one of the things that's in my head about how this works well you're talking about the original project for this one just in in General on on the previous and the past oh yes on the the on the previous one it was a very big consideration and and put things and they advised us they couldn't because of the funding source they weren't allowed to change percentage but if I'm not mistaken The Muse has quite a bit on the street facade as well as the other one that's under construction and that's across the street to the west of there and I don't even remember what the name of that one is um that also is using this product I believe West Village did as well oh sure yeah and I don't know what percent they've got and West Village is a flat panel and the inconsistencies of the substrate are telegraphing through on the west side on a flat panel on a flat surface that's that's my concern about right product I realize that's probably constructibility um so if if we're trying to clarify thoughts I'm not against the idea of fiber cement clading it is a good material I think I find it particularly strange to apply it in lap siding detailing on a building that was historically designed to be a masonry product that appeared monolithic with with masonry style ephus coins and then you've applied wood shakes to it so you've used very wood scale detailing applied as a wallpaper onto a mass massing and so there's then the concern about applying it on the radius on the outside so I think probably conceptually we're saying fiber cement as a material is probably okay it's borderline gray area I think the detailing combined on this massing seems incompatible with itself and that the curve also creates a concern because of the application of the lap and so is there a material that we could put on that area that could further reinforce the original massing of a kind of a heavy U masonry style building maybe that would be more applicable but I think generally that's the tone that I'm hearing which is fiber SMI could be okay this profile and detailing not okay and I don't feel comfortable based on how Laura has communicated that she feels comfortable with the final say on the final profile and texture and finish on whatever fiber cement panel there is so I'm a bigger fan of letting them go away think through that lens continue this and then bring it back that's that's where I sit they've had five months since approval to to get to where we are today so I would like to say take the five business days to to work on it some more okay then like hearing a continuance then and to the May meeting I'm just I'm just expressing where I am I mean there could be three other people that don't feel that way but I'm just trying to yeah no I I don't disagree with you I I would love to see a continuance I would as well um and I don't think it again I don't think it has to come back as fiber cement if there's something out I'm not trying to unravel it but if there's something else out there that approximates a unitized look that the original design had and works within the budget and doesn't create a redesign then I would be happy to entertain that as well so to give some direction on what you're doing over the next few days okay so do we have a motion and do we have a second correct with with the continuance correct right so do I have a motion I'll motion to continue onto the May downtown design development review committee meeting agenda and I'll I'll second it smid smid motion blat second um now before you do anything I think you um I just want to Circle back around and make sure that they accept that continuance sure is that something that would be appicable does it work to have this continue to the next meeting May 16 16th and you can include in that motion that there new or revised information is due by May 1st okay so then it puts it in stone for you guys for me that I agree to that so is the question are we agreeable to a May 16th continuance correct yes yes okay thank you thank you okay ton motion passes thank you okay next is item seven for for other business hello L G's planning department and let me go back okay that didn't work right let me just scroll down there we go so some of you might recall at a committee commission training within the last year or two there was a conversation about consolidating the design review committees we currently have five we have Bricktown we have downtown cic River Stockyard City and Urban Design overlay District we also currently have someone who's on our committee that we have to have a person on our committee that's also on Urban Design and so Tony gets to be on two committees so he gets two meetings a month um and so these were all established at different times in the past we had three of them that came about in the 90s and we had two that came about in 2007 so we have downtown that was toward the beginning of the year and then Scenic River came at the end of the year and as you can see Scenic river is enormous by the map that you see um this all these also say how many people are on the Committees because our committees range from five people on Stockyards you guys have seven and then Urban Design has nine so there really isn't a consistency on the size and Scenic River has nine so when we were looking at where we are now and trying to figure out where logically would a District fall with another body um we were looking at okay we currently have five what if we go down to just two which is downtown and Urban Design and downtown would also have Bricktown which seemed very logical to me because it's literally just across the tracks um and then Urban Design would also get Scenic River and Stockyards and so Urban Design has a bunch of little districts North you know up North Lincoln Boulevard all the way down to Capitol Hill and they're very specific districts that have their own criteria now what I will say is we're talking about consolidating the Committees we're not talking about changing the ordinances regulations and guidelines they're going to stay the same So currently we have uh nine members on Urban Design and we have what what the criteria is and we're proposing to retain nine members but you can see that things are changing we're not going to have a member that's on downtown and Urban Design again that means we get to fight over somebody who used to be on both of them no I'm just joking on that um and we were looking at trying to have membership for people that knew the districts you know you add in Stockyards and you add in Scenic River so we wanted a criteria that would allow people from those districts to also be incorporated um and so in downtown what we're looking to do is change it from committee to commission just for consistency um and go from seven to nine um of those nine we're adding a tenant or property owner in Bricktown which is carrying forward one of requirements that Bricktown currently has and I think that would be very helpful to have somebody with that knowledge um at the meeting when we were looking at combining these we were also looking at what has the workload been in all of these groups downtown by far is the busiest Scenic River has picked up Bricktown cancels most of their meetings they do have they occasionally have some and hopefully that will pick up Urban Design cancels a handful but not so they they have a decent number of cases that come in and Stockyards only meets quarterly but probably they only meet about once a year um most of the cases that would come in in Stockyard can be done administratively so we have looked at who wants to continue serving as you all know we we've discussed one-on-one compiled the list by what your what your qualifications are unfortunately one of the members that's sitting here before me today does not qualify for anything and it and I hate that because I wanted him to continue to serve and I've already had that conversation with Gary um because I've really enjoyed working with Gary than here thank you so we presented this verse to the river trust because that's why we have Scenic River overlay Design District um it has been presented to uh the riverfront design committee I believe we went to Bricktown last week and we still have Urban Design and stock Stockyards is on the the in May May 8th so we'll finish up with the design review um committees in May we're anticipating going to the Planning Commission to start their process because it goes to them more than once uh in May and then city council June July now before you erase this off your calendar um that could get derailed it could be a little longer as well as uh ordinances take a minimum of 30 days for them to become effective we are not starting over on the Committees like we thought we were going to so uh if you stay on downtown we have to look at how long you've been on it in the past if you change and I'm not talking about Tony on this one but if one of the other members were to go to Urban Design you start all over again Tony's been on both and so he has a term limit for both of those um which makes it a little more um unique when we try to figure that out and so staff has been working with the mayor's office on trying to come up with these are the people that are willing to continue to serve we do have some people that have just gotten so busy that they can't anymore um and so there are some people that are not uh being forwarded to the mayor's office currently and we have 38 bodies and we will have 18 so we're hoping it will be easier to appoint people we we've gone times when we've had one or two vacancies on this committee and it's made it really difficult trying to get a quorum and we maybe have to have a special meeting because we're trying not to delay things so with that being said there's a whole bunch of stuff in here including the ordinance there's a lot of things that have to change and I don't know if anybody has any questions we we are recommending uh that you provide a recommendation of approval to the to the Planning Commission um but you might have questions at least to me it seems pretty straightforward if you have some um some bodies that don't meet as regular that could be absorbed um but yes I I do like the aspect of making sure that you do retain the tenants or Property Owners from the Bricktown Corp um into this body or the new body that's one of the things whenever I was on Scenic overlay they had developers or something that was on there and they had an entirely different perspective whenever we were having discussions um Mr yoast yeah two two of the members uh of the nine on Scenic River are from the river Trust yeah uh board yeah um and that's why we took it to them first to see if they were comfortable with not having those seats at the table anymore and they were yeah I think that that I think this is a good solution I'll make I was going to say I'll make a motion to provide a recommendation of approval of this ordinance Amendment to the Planning Commission second okay Schmid Jones okay motion passes thank you okay other business B is that pardon no K Katie's gonna come down and then I'll come back up for the last one and so Katie's just gonna say ditto any questions what she said hello so um state your name please uh Katie FR planning department um see I don't never do this I don't know how to get here how do I get home okay need I'm okay okay um well that's what the green thing is but it wasn't working yeah so this is while Laura navigates this is a hopefully very simple ordinance Amendment um a little over 10 years ago just pull okay um city council added a a list of urban agriculture uses in virtually every zoning District across the city um things like Community Gardens Urban farms uh rooftop gardens that sort of thing as conditional uses um so they have requirements for um you know making sure that they're compatible within the districts where they're located they still have to meet bulk regulations Etc at that time um as I understand it in the interest of just moving that ordinance along quickly they skipped over design review districts so these Urban agriculture uses are allowed uh throughout the city but not in downtown Bricktown or the stockyard yards core development District uh we have been asked to go back and add those uses as conditional uses to those three design review districts all of the other um regulations requirements for fencing for screening Etc building materials uh will remain for those uses so if someone's going to install one of those they would still have to make the same improvements that that any other property owner would the only thing that we the only other um regulatory language that we tweak was uh language that already existed for downtown about accessory structures being exempt from a minimum height and a maximum setback to make that language clear that you can have an accessory structure without a primary structure when it's accessory to the use this is something we've already um kind of interpreted the regulations to say um such as with things like the like scissor tail Park all of the buildings in scissor tail Park are clearly not 2 three stories um they aren't 10 ft off the property line because they are accessory to the park so if you were um building some sort of small structure um to provide uh storage space for your community garden it would be treated as accessory to the community garden use um beyond that um I'm hoping this is pretty simple and straightforward and uh happy to answer any questions you guys have the only thing I would ask is this actually came about because I was contacted last year by somebody who was wanting to do it and he said it's allowed everywhere I'm like it's not sorry and so um and then I was contacted by someone else who I just the other day sent an email said this is where we are with this because they two different groups of people have been waiting for us to come forward with this one um so hopefully we will have no bumps in the road and can continue forward um so yeah I don't see any issue with this at all so I'll make a motion that we approve okay Jones motion second plat second thank you and back to Laura for number three okay motion passes okay item C hi Laura gricks planning department never done an ordinance Amendment before and so but I've been here nine years and it's about time once the screen changes um I have a map that I need to go to um so you might not know that when the downtown Design District was created in the original ordinance there was an area which you're looking at here around the memorial downtown that at the time prohibited Billboards and it was part of the original adoption in 2007 so you can see on one side it's Hudson the other side Broadway to the north it's seventh and on the south it's ad D McGee in 2010 uh amendment was made to that section and what was added to things that were prohibited in that area was EMD signs and the large display banners super Graphics I'll just call it the Thunder banners because that's what everybody is seeing now that they're putting them up on paccon and Omni so those were prohibited um recently the council adopted the new sign code that went into effect March 15th and the new sign RS didn't fully coordinate the existing Provisions that that prohibit certain types of signs within this defined area around the memorial as well the new sign regulations change the title of certain types of signs and we need to clean that up in this yes we're finding things we need to clean up and so we're going to take the opportunity when we have to do something with it to um clean it up and so what we're proposing is with this ordinance that's attached is to add murals and temp temporary signs and certain public rights of way to the list of prohibited signage you might have seen on the news the signs in the rideway is something new and that was something that the city had to go back and add um because of certain entities that were very concerned about that Prohibition in the RightWay even though it they've always been prohibited um and then also amend the title of some certain types of signs so we're looking at this to go to the Planning Commission April May and then on the council June July so questions for the we approved some signage on Prairie surf uh some months back with like a termination date of like December 2026 would that kind of be cleaned up in this language or with the new sign no so this is only dealing with this defined area that you're looking at in the map so with Prairie surf you approved they came forward and they had to get a variance and the dates that were approved for that variance because it wasn't a you can do it forever no their variance for their super Graphics had an end date and it was based on their lease okay and it's been on the news that their it was announced their lease was not going to be extended so their their agreement allowed them to do certain things with their super Graphics but but they're obviously not in this area okay and I'll just add that you now that the sign code is in effect we are staff is tracking things as they come up that we think need to be clarified that maybe aren't working the way we thought they would um that we need to go back and address and there will be at some point a larger kind of cleanup um as always happens when we put new regulations into effect this was identified and was such a defined area um such a small change as well as such an important area in the city where we wanted to make sure we were maintaining that protection that had already been in place we decided to to move this forward quickly Mak sense y thank you and I think the timing is totally appropriate that we're that we have this on here I'll make a motion to provide a recommendation to the Planning Commission I'll second okay L Jones Okay motion passes thank you okay thank you um Communications anything on that Laura um honestly don't even remember you have like five four four items on administrative approval let's see what did we do well the one building on cord which is just across the street here and it's an interesting building because I guess it's condo or something and so the Credit Union's on one side of the building and then this lawyer the other side and so it's just for that but um making a lot of changes to the exterior I think it will make it more appealing uh for pedestrians with they're adding some changing the door on the corner I think that will be an exciting project um one of them is a sign because now we can allow two signs in dtd1 and which is what the Flint coign is about um and then the first one you all had approved an apartment building that's going in a parking lot that's um up by St Anthony and they originally eliminated the drive access into this the rest of the parking lot and now they're adding an entrance only and stuff and so they had to kind of clean up some things with that one and then 816 Walker just up the street they're putting in some signs that are um I think will look really nice on that building that that mimic one that's already on the building it's an older building um and other than that okay um we obviously now have a meeting next month I was going to tell you hey you might hear it from us next week that we have canceled it but now we have an item um and so and as I mentioned earlier do not erase this from your calendar until we tell you to MH so okay that is it okay and comments from committee members any other comments from planning department okay next regular meeting committee meeting is Thursday May 16 2024 new applications were to be submitted by staff by 4 pm Tuesday April 16th uh revisions and information on continued projects will be submitted by April 23rd 2024 but we changed that to May 1st for the project correct I want to get that on the record yes on the record and if there's not anything anything else we are ajour