when the mural program came through and was like we'd like to do a pilot member all right good afternoon and welcome to the city council excuse me welcome to the city council finance committee meeting of February 15 2024 we have four items on the agenda the first of these is discussion regarding the forfeiture and seizure policies who's taking the floor Anthony's taking for Mr Francis okay um in your packet you were forwarded a draft of a of a uh a seizure policy for discussion um my understanding is that we would not adopt it at this meeting here but just um for your discussion to give us any um suggest the change that you might want to make before we would send it to the council if you chose to in the form of a of a resolution and I'll ask the City attorney if she wants to speak through it any with no warning I will opportunity because I think he drafted it but um so this just very generally describes I'll stand that sorry lost Behind these little chairs or big chairs um this just very generally describes sort of the state of the the law on what we can do with these seizure funds we have uh for State charges we have an agreement with the DA's office um about what we can do with these funds there there are limitations under federal law as well on what we can do with these funds and so this just very generally refers to those um and and sets a policy for how these would be spent based on those thank you ma'am yes ma'am um I was curious about uh number five purpose of seizure funds I was curious about providing victim restitution and compens ation what does that look like that is given a permissible use um but funds could be used under the authority of the police department if you had a domestic violence situation and somebody needed to stay in a hotel you could use that for that theoretically yes okay is that different than oh I'm sorry I interrupted go ahead um so how have we ever done anything like that uh not to my know Mr Barber might Sor you know we use seizure funds like domestic abuse scenario um no we have a we have a couple resources in town including a shelter that provides that resource um so they're provided for so everybody who has to leave their home because of domestic violence stays at the shelter doesn't seem congruent with specific women still talking it doesn't seem in congruent with what April doer told us about the majority of people leaving I don't think he's talking about the the friend the friend's house I think he's talking about no I'm talking about that because there are people who don't stay at the shelter you're talking about and end up homeless and using the shelter that as a friend's house that's what I'm talking about and then also knowing that people are staying at OU Motel um yeah there's the whole thought process too so you could use the victim restitution and compensation to house a DV domestic violence woman and possibly her children theoretically yes under this policy we've never done that before not to my knowledge I think some of it's going to depend on the source of the funds to uh federal law is different uh and has less flexibility on what we can spend those funds on and then with the state charges as I said we have an agreement with the district attorney's office that restricts with those funds can be spent on those agreements can change so the policy written more broadly uh for for what could be allowed but but what we have in place right now includes this agreement with the DA's office um and then whatever we get from the Department of Justice we have to follow those strings that are in law currently so then six comes to permissible uses of seizure funds and it says victim restitution providing financial assistance to victims of crime for Recovery Rehabilitation and other related expenses so that could be like getting somebody housed potentially I mean I don't know where that came from Anthony um we had we had several um similar policies that we drafted this from but again these are just things that could be done I don't know that they have ever been done well I'd like to explore that um especially I in the data I got with oversight there were a significant number of women who are staying at the that shelter that experienced sexual assault and when you say shelter there you mean the friend's house um who in the last year Alone um were victims uh and ended up needing a temporary emergency shelter that is not really restitution for them um and that is something I've heard from my community about using these type of funds to help actual victims so that seems like something worth exploring I just to speak up I this is very broad so these uses are allowable either under the federal guidelines or the state guidelines and that's what some agencies use those funds for so I wanted to give the the council all the possible options and then allow you to kind of limit them as you see fit so but that's why all those additional uses that we may have never used those funds for before came from okay and I know that in the examples that you just gave there are other agencies in town that provide those services but but these are potentially used as seizure funds okay well reducing the number of women staying at a fren's house uh would be great if we could explore that so that's where my mind goes thank you for this information and the background there's also is it Voca is the uh victims restitution Act that we can use and Women's Resource Center and the Catholic Charities that that uh are active in that particular vein do I didn't know if they would want their name mention oh I'm sorry okay yes sir um so along those same lines I me I remember last week April mentioned about they spent $500 a week on hotel rooms I don't know I can't recall if that was just for one person either or one family but but um it's a lot of money you're talking a nonprofit spending $500 a week on hotels um maybe this could be a way to help out with something like that housing or shelter for domestic violence victims um would be one thing um the question I had primarily though is um if you could explain the difference between civil forfeiture and criminal forfeiture where funds come from uh some are acquired through a criminal adjudication and the part that I have the most heartburn about is the Civil part where you don't have to commit a crime you don't have to even be accused of a crime and you don't have to be convicted of a crime but the government could seize your property if they determin that they think it was used for a crime and then in a civil case you have to prove the government doesn't have to prove anything you have to prove that your property wasn't used for something drug related or whatnot and so like I mentioned about my experience of being adjudicated from criminal charges and the District Attorney's Office continuing to try to keep the property that we had after we were found not guilty of criminal charges they used civil asset forfeiture to try and keep our property and in that court hearing they argued your honor we don't need prove anything this is a civil case Mr Robert Cox he needs to prove that these pipes are not for marijuana if he wants them back and thankfully judge stce didn't agree with that um and ruled in our favor but I was just like wow you're found not guilty of criminal charges and the government still tries to keep your property and argues that you have to prove uh that you didn't do anything wrong when it should be their onus so uh that's kind of where I've had a problem with it and as I've learned more about it over the years you know the difference between a criminal like police find a semi- TR full of drugs um someone is something is adjudicated criminally and proceeds are obtained through that way or property um so I my kind of Direction was discussing the difference between criminal and civil and if there was a way where we could maybe we accept criminal asset for you know forfeiture funds but maybe we either don't accept civil ones or we have a higher standard for it I'm not sure but that's kind of the road I've been trying to get down on that' so Catherine or Anthony do you know if the agency is there a way that they can identify the Civil versus criminal seizure funds is there accounting set up that way no it's only State versus Federal but but we could tie back to the case it was adjudicated it just happens to be one or the other I mean how much work would that be for you guys to figure it's more so work for them but talk a littleit about my understanding with regard to the process I'm not totally familiar with what you're talking about when we say criminal forfeiture because usually a forfeiture case is if you have a criminal case someone sto or someone's arrested their charge is filed their assets that are seized that are alleged to be the proceeds from some criminal activity that person can get convicted but the District Attorney's Office still has to file a civil asset forfeiture case in order to get title to whatever assets were seized as a result of the alleged criminal activity so you're going to have a civil case that you can tie those funds back to that you can go and look at with the understanding in that scenario there's going to be both an adjudication of of a crime there's also going to be an adjudication in a civil case that what's being forfeit were more likely to not the assets of some criminal Enterprise I think the difficulty that we have when we're talking about this issue has to do with a lot of forfeitures are somebody's coming up by 35 they get stopped for some reason they've got $100,000 of currency in the truck of their vehicle the officer will ask the occup the vehicle whose money is this who does this belong to and they go I have no idea I don't know who belongs to okay so if you're saying it's not yours it gets seized those people are let go because there's no other evidence of any other criminal activity but then the question becomes who's this money go to the DA's office still has to file a civil asset for picture case to give anybody who wants to come in and claim that this money belongs to them the opportunity to come in and convince the court that it's more likely than not that this is their money and it's not the result of some criminal Enterprise and when that doesn't happen those assets get forfeited and go to the state to be divided between the law enforcement agencies so a lot of the difficulty comes in in those instances and those are the cases that when I hear people say well there was no criminal conviction yes that's true but the factual scenario is a little bit different because you've got somebody saying this money I have no idea whose it is it's not mine under those circumstances that you still have to go through that civil process with regard to getting titled To those assets or those funds okay yeah I from an accounting perspective if there was a way to identify you know the different funds you know Federal see you know Federal we only track state I if that's too cers then you know well I'm not going to say that we could couldn't I'm just saying we haven't okay um where where we have had assignments in the past to find out you know what case this was tied to we always go back to the police or to the to legal department to find that out we just have money we just you know here's here's here's what's in that fund one thank you yes sir so my question about that scenario though is is it against the law to have1 ,000 in cash on you it's not against have $100,000 in cash but the issue that goes along with that is there still has to be probable cause for the officer to believe that there's some criminal activity to look in the trunk to begin with so you still have to satisfy that burden there was probable cause for this officer to look into your trunk he looks into your trunk he sees something and says who this belong to you when you say I don't know so but it's not against the law but the question becomes that person still has the right the opportunity to come to court to say but that's a burden that is placed on the public I've got to go to I'm not from Oklahoma now I got to travel back to Oklahoma and I got to go appear in a court I might have to hire an attorney that attorney might cost more than the amount of money that was taken seized from me so you see where I'm getting at it's not and I mean an officer can come up with any reason to find pable cause if they really want to right well like people get searched on the side of the road and the most prominent case was that one with the church group coming through Oklahoma who got stopped and had thousands of dollars taken from them and it took them years to get it rejuiced needs to pull people over to take property from people small does more interdiction on the interstate but when we've talked about this issue before what no one seems to Clue Into is the concept of the reason this is so difficult or can be difficult is because the law puts the burden or law puts the decision with regard to when you can file a replant action at the district attorney level in other words if I get stopped and my assets get seized I don't have a right to go to District Court to file a rep action today so that we can get this issue resolved the way the law has been written is the district attorney has the sole authority to make a decision is to win that asset that forfeit when that asset forfeiture case civil case gets filed which does mean I can wait you out right okay so that's the difficult part of this process the instances that I've seen we had a case filed against not a case a claim filed against us for alleged um profiling and it was somebody driving from Ohio to Corona California in a turnaround trip they drove there it's a 30-hour trip they drove 30 hours there the next day they turned around and drove back from a trafficking perspective that's a clear indication that that's probably what's going on we stopped them we separate this they were the driver and the passenger were separated they were asked questions about where they're going their stores were totally different ultimately a drug dog hit on the trunk of the vehicle they opened it up there's a bunch of marijuana and a bunch of ecstasy pills in the trunk under those are the types of circumstances that tend to result in forfeiture it's not we made up some reason to stop you it's it's a pretty sophisticated undertaking with regard to those circumstances the difficulty that you're talking about really has to do with the procedural mechanism and that's that is a legislative issue not a police department issue right and that's where I'm coming from from our angle is as a city do we accept funds that may come from questionable like we don't know that it was a legitimate thing or that's my concern or someone is found not guilty of criminal charges and the government still tries to keep their property and succeeds maybe the judge judge Dyson agrees with the issue for us will be you can make a a legislative decision that you're not going to accept those funds but that doesn't mean those funds are going back to the person that they were taken from going to be kept by the District Attorney's office right so your officers are going out and doing some of the work um and not being allowed to appropriate I would argue that because these cases have to go through edication it's not as if the rightful owner if that person is out there doesn't have a right to come in and say this is my money this is where I came from give it back to me we just had a case out of mlan County well that's exactly what happened um the DA's office ended up having to return all of the money because the people that it was taken from were able to come in and say I just got an inherence is where those funds came from now obviously you have those cases like we talked about we talked about the one where it was the church they were at a church camp they had a bunch of money he was bring you back to Oklahoma got stopped in some small municipality the money was taken it clearly was theirs it took them you know like it was very difficult for them to get that back yeah I understand that those are out there I don't know that those are the rule those tend to be or seems like to be the exceptions a lot of ones that I've looked at from our perspective generally are someone was stopped for some legitimate reason there was funds there they were asked who this belong to I have no idea I I can't tell you belong to I don't know yeah so really it was more of a we're taking the money for safe keeping if you don't know who it is the police department seizes it with the intention of getting it back to the rightful owner but nobody ever comes forward and says yeah that was fine I think that's part of it is um again the burden being on that person has to then go to court and hire an attorney and do all that stuff the the legal burden is on the District Attorney's office to show that in that forfeiture action especially if it results from some alleged um criminal activity they have the initial burden to show that these are the proceeds from some criminal activity it's not as if the plaintive or the defendant because the difficulty is and we talk a lot about in the law it's really hard to prove a negative yeah I can't prove this is not something so the initial burden is not on the defendant it's actually on the District Attorney's office to prove that these funds are proceeds from activity well just like I said though in my personal experience the Ada said straight to the judge it's not we don't have to prove anything Mr Cox has to prove that this property was not used in the commission of a crime remember the Ada and so judge stce agreed with us but you know maybe another judge doesn't the Ada is not the person the 8 like me any attorney I can make whatever argument I want to make right um it's the judge that ultimately makes determination as to what the law is and obviously in that case judge St disagreed with the Ada's statement with regard burden approve I cannot imagine that there's another judge over there that would rule differently um right sure can if I bring the action I have a burden to to prove something okay appreciate that Rick um but yeah just the that it's kind of ambiguous each state has different rules some states uh are more strict about how they accept it or if they do at all or the burden of proof of something and it's like I said I don't think Norman Police have an incentive to do that but in other places there is and it gives that oh you're you're a rural small town you're a sheriff's apartment you're if you take this property you're going to benefit from it your Department's going to get the value of that and you're going to get to buy a new you know a Camaro police car to patrol the highway with or something like that you know and so it gives the appearance that there's an incentive for law enforcement to pull people over on the highway and take their stuff and and then assuming that well if it's under this amount they're not likely going to fight it because they're going to spend more to hire an attorney and maybe they don't want to travel all the way back to Oklahoma multiple times to do it so that's always been my concern though is that it's not so much a Norman PD is doing this it's a holistic issue and um just the thought though of us using funds to buy stuff that may have come from somebody who didn't commit a crime but didn't or couldn't push back on it and if I may I I want to make sure that we understood the assignment to be to write a policy or to draft a policy for the usage of funds that had come into the city's possession that's correct seizure funds what I understand com from a h homeing to be um kind of honing in on is what would cause us to come into possession of those funds and and that's beyond the scope of what we what's our criteria as a city for accepting it that's the perfect question and and do you want us to take that extra step I mean yeah I'd be interested in seeing what some of these so like New Mexico I think has a a B+ or an A minus rating when it comes to their forfeiture law but Oklahoma has an f and the United States has a D minus or something as a whole so Most states are in the F and D category that's Southern Poverty Law Center okay but it yeah just looking at different states policies Nebraska has a high rating they're a bit more strict on what they or how they do it i' have to read more but that's kind of my line of thinking though was are other places do they have a stricter criteria for accepting the funds depending on where they come from or how they're adjudicated um and a an attorney had mentioned to me the well there's civil forfeiture and then there's criminal forfeiture criminal being a criminal act was adjudicated we knew it happened and that's where it came from civil being the government thinks somebody did something but they don't get charged with any criminal charges and so that's kind of where that came from well may um my argument I guess would be that we we're not legislators and we're definitely not in other states there are ideas to be taken but as Mr Francisco says what do we want to do what do we want to have him do and so that we're doing things correctly um I don't I understand what you're saying and I in in that I don't share the same visceral feelings you do I've never had it done to me yeah I didn't before that so I didn't know about it there there what do we want to do with this do we want to use this paper as uh for a study session or or or a time that we want to get together and discuss good good framework and and and do what do we want to do well I like I said I just exploring options but thinking yeah we're not legislators can't change the state law but in the city of Norman if we said if it was set up like this that we're like okay we will accept these funds but we have a higher standard in Norman than the state has or like it's a criminal adjudication and it's not just a civil case where you know I appreciate Rick going into detail about that but that's kind of where I was thinking though is that we have maybe a higher standard and then we have some guidelines like this about what we would use it for so you know we spent a lot of it on the police department um but maybe it's worth maybe helping with domestic violence victims who you you know different stuff like that that because it talks about public safety and I think we can fit quite a few things in public I could argue that it improvements we could use forfeiture funds for that right because it's a public safety matter we have to get it past so I mean but that's kind of you know I was just going to say one thing we might want to do also is sort of separate some of these things that money can be spent on between federally obtained funds and state obtained funds uh because those um rules are different for each one and so there may be some things we can do with some funds that we can't do with others and so that may be some additional detail we can add in here to make it a little more clear I mean ideally too the budgets and everything are you know the way we would like you know the police department doesn't need this type of funding because our regular yearly budget allocation is enough to meet all their needs that's every Department you know but uh but ideally you wouldn't need law enforc agencies to rely on this and like I said I don't think Norman PD has to rely on this we have a budget and a sales tax base but in other areas where they don't have anything this could be a significant part of their budget is yes sir relying on this so so I understand you know your concerned about being an incentive I really do and it seems like you know once we get this policy drafted you know it'll be kind of a a guide for us and you know like in my opinion the best use of these funds would be to do something for the common good you know like helping a woman who is escaping a domestic violence situation or you know a critical piece of equipment that either fire police needs so yeah I think this document is a good start and like um Miss Walker indicated you know segregating you know the federal and the state I think would be good been since the uh the regulations for fed and state are different yeah I agree with though yeah same going to add that a clarification would be great um I'd like to prioritize uh seeing it used on victims uh as opposed to equipment just because it should be something that we budget for if it's necessary um it shouldn't be something that we're hoping onetime funds that come in are going to cover like that just seems I we have a public safety study coming and I feel that should be guided in our choices for future budgets anything else on this for yes sir on the prohibited uses of seizure funds one of those activities contract to Mission and values of the city of Norman do we have is that printed somewhere what the mission and the values of the city of Norman are yes broadly speaking it's for the health and um welfare of the citizen but again who gets to adjudicate that is right delegated to the police department by this by this policy so like if the mission the values of the city of Norman aren't formally expressed somewhere then they could at least be used to broadly contain or confine uh some of the uses of the seizure funds yeah we can certainly quote from the city Charter about you know he weth and safety of the citiz last paragraph okay that's my only question but that's really broad I mean don't don't sugarcoat that yes sir M um so was thinking about that and I just kind of lost it for a second but uh maybe I'll come back to it okay um okay yeah so we had talked about before when we were discussing last summer about using the funds for the purchase of the police cars and stuff that we really did have a broad range of what we could use it for now the da district attorney might not agree with it maybe doesn't want to give it give the funds to us if we don't follow his rules but legally we could use it for a pretty wide range of things if we wanted to State funds are generally more broad uh we do have an agreement with the DA's office because they they retain all that money until they decide to share it with us and so they've got this agreement uh that provides for that it said funds to be used solely for enforcement of control dangerous substances law uh drug abuse prevention and drug abuse education that's what the agreement currently says okay so Federal ones we could use for more broad is that what you're saying no federals generally more restrictive we restri on that yeah this is an agreement uh that was entered into at the beginning of this fiscal year and it was narrowed from previous years at that time so would purchasing 18 police cars fit in with that I think it would could pull somebody over purposes yeah uh but we did that we authorized that prior to this agreement this agreement okay um came into effect July 1 so really yeah okay well I'd be possibly interested in renegotiating that agreement to do more than just drug enforcement um but to address a broader range of Public Safety matters for sure and I guess the district attorney doesn't like it then he could give it not give it to us but um yeah that's I think we have a lot of Public Safety needs in Norman then um and everything needs funding so I think it would make people feel better if it wasn't all going to the agency that collect or that may be collecting it using it for some does the police yes okay so not that none of it could or would but fire department it Department domestic violence uh victims um other Public Safety matters um I think that could get everybody still may not be real comfortable with it but if they know it's going to multiple things that may be helping in the community that could be a good thing but I do like the framework here something that work with I agree a question wait one please um one of the things that that that could happen in that is if we can have a copy of thatou or agreement with it with the da yeah uh then that would be something we added to this uh that we would we would add in yeah and it may be that we want the policy to be more broad because it's got all the caveats in there that says subject to these things because these will change you know um so it does give you some flexibility that's enough to go around oh I do sorry wonderful see in one line up well that'll help in in uh that'll help in making some determinations and depending on on what the da wants to do it's his agreement too m uh you know perhaps that would would further guide how we flesh out the policy itself sure so all right okay item number two wanted to normally we don't take questions thank you okay um coun Council question number two discussion regarding the FYE 20242 City budget for several Vol or things under social and voluntary Services Commission um at this point in the budget process we have normally come to the finance committee for um discussion about these outside agencies who have requested additional assistance from the city's general fund and I want to make sure that you understand that this is the general fund a lot of the agencies get United Way money or or they get cdbg money that sort of thing this discussion is about additional funds from the general fund uh what we have concentrated on here is those agencies that have uh requested additional funds from the general fund to what they had in this current fiscal year um and you'll see kind of a three-year history of what um Appropriations have been made from the general fund to these agencies a lot of them have had a longer history than that of getting assistance from the general fund um and and again it's just totally open for your discussion but um again we might recognize those agencies that have requested additional Appropriations or if you wanted to hear from from all of them about their programs in general we could do that just totally up up to you it's unusual for us to have this many of them who have requested additional funds so it's just kind of like you'd be pretty much touching on all of them anyway get the whole thing I don't know who was first I think we were simultaneously but um so historically or previously so regarding the these requests is there a specific specific dollar amount that Council has previously said okay we're going to a lot X dollar and this is how we're going to no um way back when this first started it was that um the city's general fund had been paying for employees of some of the agencies that the city own the building the uh sooner theater The Firehouse art center and so um we didn't want the those employees to uh those agency employees to become city employees um so what was done at that point was that just the amount of money that they had been paying the the individual was made general fund allocation to those agencies under the understanding at that point that they would kind of wean down that that journal fund assistance over a three or five year period um and and it kind of Grew From there so again um that's just the history the amount of money now um particular as it relates to Social and voluntary Services uh expanded exponentially uh and that was a council decision basically that you wanted to support those agencies to a greater extent um again just uh the the Veterans Day Parade the mar mar um the Norma Music Festival some of those were kind kind of new new requests based on some circumstances that came up uh um Council wanted to support those agencies whether it be on a temporary or a permanent basis your work call it relates to the Norman Music Festival um there was also additional um cares act money and arpa money given uh just to support the Norman Music Festival through the pandemic um so so again there's a sort of a different history for each of these organizations um the firehouse Arts Center is the one that got a exponential increase last year and Council wanted to make that a permanent level so so again that's different history for each of them okay thank you got um so the increases the those are for the ones for this year from what they had been getting in the final in the further St column yes um could are those entities here that are asking for an increase this year do they can we ask them uh what the only one that I'm not sure about is the Veterans Day Parade but they're only asking for $50 increase yeah so why not come on um so a third Center for Children families um here oh well I there's a staff report too yeah um performing art studio Depot is custodial yeah custodial Services sure so um in a nutshell I think if you would stand at least get closer to the m I'll come over you sit down make sure we get the words and all the things thank you so much for letting us have a chance to be here thank you Cody for bringing me my paper so I don't forget anything um the depot is a little bit of an interesting situation because it is you know as on the front page of your budget document you talk about the depot being the place where the city was ploted and um we help uh fulfill the obligation of providing a trained waiting room 365 days a year that's a significant effort on our part so a lot of what we're asking for for cleaning for Staffing for assistance is really our part of fulfilling that requirement on behalf of our city to be hosting train services um because we have unlike many of the other organizations that you're taking a look at on your budget we have not received that funding uh as the depot but we do we've received $5,000 maybe and I think that increased to maybe seven um which is a a a big difference than what many of the other organizations receive and we are operating 365 days a year as a train station on behalf of our community in addition it was the charge for the Depot in its agreement ment with the city that we are open and available for community events for our community to use we host all of the downtown parades we have free space available for sister nonprofits events Arts organizations other festivals that take place which we throw our doors open and take but that again is Staff time cleaning time supplies there's all of those pieces that go into help providing that service and I think what we're asking is that the city help us fulfill those agreements on behalf of the city um the gentleman that sits out there and does stuff in Ken he's amazing did he finally get paid Ken is not Ken won't take it we have tried um and and part of the reason that we're asking now is that Ken has been for those that don't know we have an extraordinary volunteer named Ken he is a train offici in AO for him helping us with trains in the morning is like a kid with a full-size train set um he absolutely loves being there he's there almost every single solitary morning as Anthony well knows and he um helps host the train he loves trains so much that he had a satellite installed at his house and has special permission to have access to where the trains are and has his own dedicated um like input into the train system he's an absolute expert Ken has been doing this for a while and as a volunteer and he's not going to be able to do this forever this is a part of the reason why we're trying to get resources in place so that we're ready to make that transition when Ken's Ready to say I've done this for 10 years now I'm ready to back away um and we we feel like that is this is going to need a paid individual we need to pay for services we have like I said paper products cleaning the floor just to get ready for our day all of the things that go into hosting nearly at this point 10,000 train customers every year uh that come through just in the morning we have a full house every morning uh and um it it takes resources and so far for the last 20 years the depot has borne most of the cost for those yeah um yeah so what kind of um increase in traffic have you seen you have you been you've been at the Depot for a while for a decade yeah yeah so what has been the trend that you've seen basically over the past 10 years far as you know visitors you know number of trains coming in so a a real increase so we had we had some regular numbers of around 20ish and I'm happy to submit because Ken does keep very detailed reports and I have reports daily reports for the last 10 years on all train customers that come through the building because Ken keeps them on our behalf um but we saw as you can imagine during the pandemic nobody was riding the train the trains were shut down we didn't have passengers the room was quiet when we they did restart they waited on the platform instead of being in the building and we wondered what that was going to be like post Pand pmic and the numbers are higher now than they were the two years prior to the pandemic we are seeing increased writers ship plus as many of you may be aware there's conversation about we try to stay in the rail Transit conversation at the Depot because our planning depends on what changes are going to happen around us to that space there's discussion of um extending the train from Oklahoma City to Newton Kansas so that would add that there's also additional discussion about the Heartland Flyer being a two-way so that one would leave in the morning at both places and arrive at noon now this is going to take several years to put in place but again we are feeling the need to be able to to ramp up to ensure that we've got the resources to continue that service uh and also the discussions around the rail Transit Authority initially there were five cities now there are only three cities I believe that are currently participating in that discussion um that may have slowed the progress but we are not not giving up on the idea that there might be a rail Transit and we do keep in the back of our mind as we plan programming what it would be like for the depot to be Grand Central Station for Norman Oklahoma and that's a you know like that's a that's a different space to occupy but it doesn't mean we couldn't be an art space and still really serve constituent groups um but for many of these things these are outside the perview of our programming and that's why we're asking the city for its assistance to help cover the part that makes us a functioning train station and make sure that that's not an undue burden on our ability to produce Summer Breeze and comedy and amazing concerts and an art gallery and all of the wonderful things we do thank you absolutely I was going to say I went to a transportation also you did too Mr may we had the Department of Transportation in the house that's right the feds uh and also I was in there for the Marty gr parade where they were doing the awards for a minute and then I popped out um but I'm supportive cuz obviously I know what you guys have put into it and also the types of highle visitors that come through so we have an estimated uh in addition to the 10,000 trained customers that are there we have approximately 25,000 people that come through just in guests for events that are hosted at the Depot and then we have another 10 to 15,000 that are through every year for the events that we put on in the depot which we relegate to some spaces that don't interrupt our ability to serve the the community at large Thursday nights Sunday nights those seem to be our sweet spots uh yeah I'll be done well it's it's it has been a train station yes sir if I may speak as a as a customer I'm a fre fairly frequent Wier of the train and I will say um a frustration that I have is the night service absolutely um and and I know that there were funds added a few years ago AG go for the night service that didn't happen but but you know see Norman is the first stop on the southbound train going to Ford worth and it's always on time but coming back Norman is the last stop and it's almost never on time and and so those of us who are waiting and you know yeah I've gotten sophisticated enough to have that happen you know it's going to be 20 minutes late it's going to be 40 minutes late and I can sit over there at the bar or something but it would be really nice to have the Depot open open at night um with those varying schedules just speaking as it I agree with you it's got to be more more common when when I was a child that was common way to travel for most of us that couldn't afford airplane fee we went to Atlanta that way so I have the well it's it's not a story we have time for today but remember to ask me at some point about the fact we just discovered that the Chicago Mafia was run out of the depot for about 25 years by a man that lived in Norman Oklahoma uh out east of town named Al Capone huh nope he worked for Al Capone and his name was Murray humph you can go Google that and Find documentaries about him and he lived in Norman and he was arrested by the FBI at our train depot in 1965 take him back to Chicago to face trial he ran the mob out of Norman just discovered this reason and toos yeah J the tunnel onlyn there's a tunnel and we're going to find it yeah well that's wonderful did yes sir so we uh we went from 5600 a year and then increased that up to 118 last year so according to the contract I received from the city we only received 7,800 this year for some reason the additional 4,000 didn't make it into the funding um I don't know how that must be an oversight it's in theing is it there well then I'll the contract back we get it okay that's fine that's fine good to know yeah good to know great hooray so um 118 is up to increasing that to MH 50 uh ,700 it's quite a 3 $38,900 leap there um so I think we all love the depot and support it but need to you've done a good job of explaining what what it's needed for but so I think a part of what we've been hesitant to ask for is bearing their real cost of this we've asked for direct exact costs that were related to us like the exact number of Paper Towns um but really I think what we are taking a look at is during our Gallery hours increasingly we are asked to serve as Amtrak Services we get walk-ins every single day that ask us how to catch the train we have dozen phone calls a day we have all of these pieces that we do in support of train service that takes staff time and hours we print all of the Flyers ourselves so that we have them because Amtrak has stopped providing them um so it's th we would like some assistance with a dedicated staff person that can be there to do that because it's ending up taking so much of our time that the normal tasks of showing someone around who wants to have an event or answering phone calls or providing reporting are things that are are becoming secondary because we're paying attention to potential train customers as well number huh what's that number I just a wag yes I believe I put in here like you know uh where did I put it did I bring it with me I wonder if it's in so I'd put a $30,000 for partial salary support for staff at the Depot charged with managing the facility and hourly staff to coordinate and report to the city regarding our events facilities issues the other real part here is we get so bogged down in doing the day today currently we're having air conditioner issues we've got leaks we've got things going on in the depot that really need repair and sometimes we move so quickly we don't have the time to slow down invite the city over talk uh because if I gave you our our salary breakdown it's it's a I mean we are part-time people we we have a couple of hourly staff that maybe work 10 hours a week because that's all we can afford to pay them and a couple of part-time staff including myself as the executive director who make about 25 Grand each and that's it um so having this kind of support would allow us to invest more hours in making sure that we're better serving the community and take the burden off of this portion of our staff for the management of this facility as a train station and for the support of those hours well our job is to to do things in as excellent a way that we can if we were going to do things as an excellent way as we can MH how much more money is that if we said this number is where am I um 38900 what would be enough to be able to help you keep things open in the evening like not just necessarily for Anthony but there may be other people there going up to Oklahoma City too no that if we were going to add because night service is a thing that we were very interested in helping provide we don't like it we worked with Amtrak and we actually had discussions with BNSF and they have come out and put new lights on our platform it used to be a dark platform that people arried to at night and we did not like that um so we've worked with BNSF and they have installed on their platform new lighting which is helpful uh but we would love for there to be a person there to have the doors open in case somebody's ride didn't show up and they were stuck on the platform or they needed to wait for 20 minutes so that's a couple of hours of Staffing I don't know I'm going to save 50 bucks times $365 days a year that's if you add that to that amount and now we're talking about night service um a couple of hours of somebody's time and cleaning up after the crew um and that's a that's a low estimate but I'm trying to be frugal we are very frugal at the Depot and and and as as are most things that even though we treasure uh we don't usually pay well I try being a teacher and no I'm I have worked in nonprofit Arts my entire career well if if if that number if that number what I guess I'm asking for you yeah is if that number were 58 900 then we would absolutely take a look at what it was going to take to get night service started as soon as we could what's the thoughts from Council adding another 20,000 to that to to be able to do that so the total total okay I'm just was to make sure I understood the revenue sheet yeah go ahead so your net revenu 8,868 57 after expenses and everything there's actually that was last year and we got lucky because there was additional erpa funding that was last the last round of that that came in so that that made it the bottom year nice and soft last year okay yeah I hadn't seen the breakdown like this in a while cuz we just talked last year about increasing it and I was like you know you can ask for an increase and right and so I I wasn't uh fully aware of where the revenue all came from for and so the city of Norman Amtrak that 5600 that's the part that we contribute not Amtrak or Amtrak directly is no Amtrak contributes nothing nothing okay to us that's great Amtrak contributes nothing uh we are technically what's called an unmanned station so in Amtrak size they would be happy if people arrived at a dark platform or an empty building um there are there are several stations along the way where that is the case but as this is a Welcome to our downtown Norman and we have this beautiful public private partnership where we're allow we we get to produce Summer Breeze and concerts and comedy night and an art gallery and all of the fun things that we get to do this is a piece that was a part of the original agreement with the depot and the city that we would provide space a part of the initial $30,000 cost was the anticipation that currently because our funding is so tight we only have open hours on Gallery hours from 10: a.m.
To 2: p.m. with this increase we could extend that from 8:00 a. to 2 p.m. and now I have a staff member who's there every morning to help train customers and that alleviates the the pressure on Ken to be the guy who's there every single solitary morning he's amazing and you'd be able to do the night if we inre if we add another 18 then I would be working to find a nice contract person that was interested in being our evening uh waiting room host I would absolutely look into that we would be that's one of the things and we did you're right that right I think it was the 2019 2020 fiscal year where we didn't accept that additional bit of funding because we ended up with a pandemic instead of opening M evening reception things we ended up not having trains at all well I um I definitely don't see activity at the Depot decreasing um and if you know the movement by Amtrak is more than I've heard in years about them doing they've been talking about the Newton thing forever yeah um and that being a key connection because those that don't know if you wanted to go to Chicago on the Amtrak you have to ride it South to Dallas first and then go back up um so it's not really efficient to do that so but if it connected to Newton Kansas it connects to the line that goes directly to Chicago and it could go directly west to or to California too so it's a pretty significant connection um and the RTA stuff I mean I think we're hopeful of it but there's still some unanswered questions about how it actually ends up getting funded um but I definitely don't see interest or traffic decreasing um there um anytime so I mean I'm very open to that suggestion for sure um um same and I was curious uh like this comes we're not done with it right like uh if you were to go back and see if you could find somebody for evening and bring forward a real world number I can amend this yeah because we are I'm work you know just riffing off the top of my head so if I go back and do a little bit of work and and amend this ask we could find out what it would really take yeah put that night service together because there are things in the back of my head I'm already thinking like well now I have to double my supplies cost if I'm going to have everybody in and they're using paper towels and everything else I might have to add a little evening janitorial services to that to make sure that the room is clean and ready for the next morning like all of those pieces so I need to think through what that would really cost but I would happily go take a look yeah well I'm supportive of moving in that direction and I like the idea okay expanding night services anding we we do too we would love it ber n do you have any objection nope I think it's kind of insane that we uh being the third largest city we we're just an unman train station yeah but you don't get any state funding at all we get no State no am funding so there's no there's no funding for the depot and the building was just State appropriates money to amtr right I was going to say the state is kind of subsidizing the amtr service and that's right I don't know if it's still thing but I guess Texas wasn't paying anything no and we did find that out in our you know Department of Transport ation meeting that uh the Oklahoma Department of Transportation is funding The Lion Share of the Heartland Flyers function uh because Texas keeps arguing that it's not a benefit to them to which the Department of Transportation people thought wait a minute the train headed in your direction full of passengers is not a benefit to you I don't I you don't have to be logical to be government well there is that it it's also something I'm interrupting no it's also something too we're trying to take people off our roads we're trying to make air better we're trying to do all kinds of things in that that direction this is a simple Step at very little cost comparatively to make things easier for people to take the train and you'll see you know part of that request was we have some you know it's a meager signage outside but being able to let people know that we were a functioning train station what part we can do to let people know that this is the place because that is one of the most common things we get is people walking in and they'll walk to the Railhouse across the the street or they'll come to us and they'll go is this the train station they proba think just a historic huh they probably think it's just like a historic Boutique a historic Boutique buil that's right and drun of metal going down the track that's the spot kids anyway well thank you very much for putting that in there absolutely thank you Miss Jackson of course other questions on other groups yes sir okay so the um the social voluntary Services I didn't see a complete break down of what that gets divided up I know food and shelter is one of them and I thinking virtue Center and Women's Resource Center but I wasn't sure what all that 250 gets divided up between I thought that all the agencies are you know contracted with Council um Lisa Craig has a committee that accepts applications for that funding and they'll they'll vet the applications and then award after they receive these funds so it is um food and shelter is usually one of the recipients but it's it's a group of recipients so if we weren't funding a friend's house our total contribution to those types of services would be included inside that 250 our total general fund total general fund yes um I know that one in particular it definitely gets cdbg money c yeah sure but our general fund allocation to nonprofit services for homeless or for domestic violence stuff is 250,000 and that gets divided up between whatever entities apply for it so it's a pretty small chunk of a I mean it's a fraction of a percent of our budget that part is but obvious talked about it last year people think we to spend 1010 million a year on shelter or something it's a very low amount that we're spending of our city budget even if you include the shelter it's still uh I mean there's always outside emergency services and different things that cost money to address situations but our direct funding just for everybody listening our direct funding to these types of services is almost nothing I mean it is and and the historical where she she's not here the historical building got golly what was it they got a grant just the other day um you might not have even got it yet the house the house sou Lindsay Mo house yeah um got a got a grant for to fix things up and to do stuff it's it's looking for money anywhere for these guys so it just this is a this is a way of being able to do a lot of the uh to help them stay in business so we've got services that that do work for people but one question I had I need your memory uh we were talking about firehouse last last year and Anthony made the comment that we made that 60,000 permanent yes that's what we that was what you decided I just didn't remember I do remember asking the question though is like you know if we gave you this increase right now is the goal to keep asking for that same amount every year or is there a goal to uh like we give this influx of funds but then the firehouse fundraises or whatever and they wean that down so I don't we could ask kind of what I was like yeah yeah yeah so if you I remember the discussion we had about it cuz I think I remember my response that there's never going to be a shortage I think of needs if you come over here so you can stay on the be happy too but um I know last year you know you had just come on and had a lot of things you wanted to improve and change and so part of that increase I think was to help accomplish some of that and so um I guess the justification for this year to maintain that level what sure kind of things you have in mind um so we're uh we're in a really good position to receive funds from the state for arpa uh this past year um we had a had a lot of problems with our building uh I want to say the parks department had around 150 allocated to go back into the firehouse and those funds are reallocated to another Parks project oops and so that's okay uh we have some grant opportunities so our our arpa funds that we've applied to are 100% uh for the restoration of the building okay and so that'll go back into a security system uh that will support Lions Park and the firehouse uh that'll also go into the restoration of the pottery patio back there our Kil yard so all three of those kils don't work um which is a real pain the gas plumbing is a mess um we recently we had 20 leaks in the firehouse um so we were able to fix that with parks and rack uh we also had black mold on the north side of our building um so all those are have been fixed up I think this Friday we're going to be reopening for the first time in about a month and a half um so that's it's going to be exciting to have our gift shop and our Gallery uh back open after the holiday but those funds will restore um that Kil yard and allow us to have a larger Kil um and a clay mixer as well which we got from usao last year and so it's three KS and you're going to go to one big Kil yes sir so right now the uh we're having uh attendance has practically doubled if you've seen the report this past year at the firehouse we have about 150 plus people coming to our exhibition openings and I can't fit them all in there and so having one Kil and uh creating some patio furniture and areas for people to hang out in uh will allow us to serve more people and see more of our community in our space uh right now I've just been putting stools out on the back backyard there so so you're not asking for an increase you're just asking to maintain what we raised it to last year if yes if if you'll notice we have uh received a lot more funding this year we were able to secure a grant from the katrick foundation uh the cerr foundation OG&E foundation and I'm hoping for McCaslin um coming up so we're we're definitely working hard to get more funding uh the the main goal um is to really serve our fifth grade audience I don't know how many people know here uh but our third fourth and fifth graders uh they do not have a dedicated art teacher and so they start art here in Norman Public Schools in sixth grade and so we're we're talking with the Norman Public School Foundation um and and hopefully hiring um a full-time art educator so our faculty right now is all contract uh we have over 20 contract faculty members uh that are creating all these awesome programs and classes for us but getting one just to serve uh the Elementary School audience would greatly affect the visual education Visual Arts education here in Norman yeah so that's the ultimate goal I'd love to be able to raise enough money to provide a for a position like that so it's successful it's growing and popularity um it's a good those are a good things it's essential that's just how you get if whether you're an engineer or an artist you have to be able to do and it's a historic nor building too I don't know I don't think it was our first Firehouse but it was second one number two 1946 um okay well I appreciate that um my other question not regarding uh Firehouse was about uh ccfi actually and asked but they weren't here but there is a report so I only ask about that because um you know a decade or so ago the County Commissioners voted to eliminate County funding for it and it was the City that stepped in and M took filled the Gap that the county created um different County Commissioners now so you know I don't know it's it serves I don't I don't think it just serves kids in Norman I think it serves kids from all over this area so I don't know I'm I'm definitely willing to I am all for funding it and I don't mind increasing it but it would be nice if the county would be interested and they don't have to fund the whole thing but would contribute some uh to this County service basically especially since they used to fund the whole thing um and uh so I don't know that might be a conversation we could have with them before we approve a final budget is if if they were able or willing to contribute some that would be helpful and then we wouldn't have to take it all on ourselves thing like matching matching or maybe they cover that increase that 30,000 I doesn't sound like a lot for the county but well getting money out of the county it out of me so I know but it's a I thought it' be a worth a conversation worth having with them since there are at least I don't know if I don't I can't recall if Rod was even on when that decision was made either so I don't think he was so I think it was all three different County Commissioners back then so that was like 2011 or 12 when that happened I'm meeting with commissioner Griffin Griff can't even get rusty anyway G um Wednesday so I'll put that on my list of yeah asks it's worth asking yes ma'am yes and I would say the kids that go there have like complex traumas and also are victims so it is like the county should be interested in their welfare as well and then Boys and Girls Club is also in there too right that's a Norman PD de as I remember that's the after school program after school program yeah all right other questions let's see um are we going line by line you go however you want to go let's see you I I'm supportive of all of them you know they well let me let me back up the majority have provided you know tax returns or audited financial statements PR your financials and while there's one that provided just the request and itemization of what the use of funds were be we didn't get the prior Returns the prior year Financial results so um and that would be Norman Music Festival okay so um I'm not in favor of a $50,000 request I'm happy to support the 10,000 I agree U yes I was just going to see if Sher might want to talk about nor Music Festival back again we went from uh contributing zero for the festival to 10,000 last year um so this is where our our direct request comes in yeah um and and this one is a is a new one and we really appreciated the 10,000 there are a couple of opportunities before the Norman Music Festival first you know um the budget for the Norman Music Festival has grown exponentially as the festival has grown uh when I came on board about 8 years ago that budget was about $125,000 a year it is now 280 ,000 a year and we have not increased our artist or production budget that is simply the infrastructure cost it takes to put on the festival that is the increased cost of fencing portable toilets security street closure permitting and every other piece that goes into getting this ready for uh production so this year we have the largest Headliners that we've ever had we also have engaged a digital strategy partner to do Outreach to surrounding markets to make sure that everybody knows this is the largest Festival in Oklahoma and the best music festival in the region so digital strategy partners are going to fill those those hotels it's one thing that we didn't do in earlier years because we didn't simply have enough Hotel Beds for the influx of visitors that we anticipated that might want to come to the Norman Music Festival this is the year where we finally feel like our community is ready our city is ready to be able to host a tourism draw like we know the festival can be so that digital strategy partner is going to do that work then there are another couple of opportunities we've identified some potential funding that really depends on whether or not the community supports the festival um there are a couple of things going on one is our conversations with the Oklahoma film and music office they've been doing a lot of work with film certified cities music certified cities is next on their agenda so having a music certified City and we think that Norman could absolutely be one of those um one of the things that they do look at is is your community supportive of and invest in so having our city as a partner in this Festival would be very helpful our costs directly to the city have hit that $10,000 Mark so we pay as you know we pay to have a festival happen rather than get support from our city to have that happen couple of reasons why we chosen that number and I'm sorry I didn't bring my proposal with me so somebody might remind me if I get it wrong is that we wanted our City's help in doing the work that we do on top of what city services can do for us we pay um now $99,000 for sanitation above what our city services can handle because we pay to make sure that those streets are clean that our downtown businesses are not inconvenienced and that by Sunday morning it looks like we were never there that's what we take care of yes um so we do that we also have Security in addition to our Norman police officers to make sure that the areas that we produce our stage areas are areas that we take care of which alleviates the burden on our police force and make sure that they're able to patrol at large um so it's that kind of support plus potentially if some support for the administrative cost it takes to put the festival together are really small um comparatively speaking we have some very exciting things that we can't I don't think we can talk really loudly but we have some new partners and we hope that in the next few years there will be opportunities that help get this Festival fully funded and get it to the level we need it to be to make it sustainable um but right now we're asking for the city's help to get there I would have expected to have seen um a more detailed proposal outlining everything and seeing a comparative you know the prior year financials did I not send those along cuz I can absolutely send them I thought those were included in the proposal that I sent to you because I always send them I'm okay with 10,000 I'm not okay with 50 increasing it 10 the request increase it by 40 so that's the request and I did send the prior year financials along with if they didn't make it in your pocket there is not a set of financials in here there's not a form 99 you oh I I got it right here I'm happy to forward can you send me the prior year financials or the I've got both right here and I can send you them both right now I'll make sure that the entire group gets them yes absolutely are you councelor mon to are you saying you'd be okay with increasing it by 10,000 or just maintaining the 10,000 we allocated last year yeah I'm fine with the allocation that they received last year yeah but not not but not the additional 40 okay yeah that's what I meant okay um I think yeah that info would be helpful I to see how that yeah I'm happy to send I've got the like I said I've got 990 and prior years it's Grant season so I've got all those information together to submit with grants at my fingertips send them along right now you're saying in here M that uh 50,000 could get the city's name on a stage type thing or advertising for the city of Norman I mean I thought it would be a good idea before if if the city was involved and you know one of the announc was thankfully thanking the city of Norman and we would love to do that you know so that could be a benefit and I know you know voters did approve an increase to the hotel motel tax and I um so to promote you know more tourism and things like that so I'm not opposed to an increase I don't know about 40,000 I think we may need to discuss that but I i' would be open to an increase for sure and uh I think if we take a look at the information that councel Montoya is asking for that we can I will happily sorry I thought those were I have both and I thought they had been sent with the report and I'll make sure they get to you this afternoon you know I think it's uh hard to quantify exactly what the benefit is but I think we all can agree that it's a it's a major plus having economic impact to the city is $4.5 million in generated economic activity over the weekend which benefits mostly our locally owned businesses downtown we're really super proud of the fact that many of the businesses that have relocated to downtown are happy to tell us they relocated so that they can be there during the festival many of our downtown business partners let us know they make about three months of their rent and bills off of that one weekend which makes sure that they're there all year round and so chairman I recall all the downtowners saying hey at this Festival whenever the students leave they're the ones that keep us float during the summer yeah so but you know given that I'm also a CPA and I'm heavy in accounting and anytime approving anything you know I need the details to review of course like I said I have them and I'll send them along to you in about 10 minutes why all right well thank you ma'am absolutely thanks I think that's a just a note on that those things that we do that have to do with we're going to soon talk about uh certified filmed for the city and we're going to very quickly talk about uh the music certification debris able to bring those persons here to be able to do so yes sir yeah the the normal music festival like the kind of siding with C Montoya on this one with the maybe not the full $40,000 increase um 50,000 now just looking at the $50,000 expenditure need about $1.1 million in sales to uh recoup that um and by the Numbers they had it's about 40 with $100,000 or not dollars 100,000 people in the four was it four or five million uh economic impact those were sales and that's about $40 spend a person um that would mean that we' need about 20 75,000 more people to um at that $40 to generate that 1.1 million um but then you know there's 6,000 more people that come to Norman that week and spend $200 each and that that recoup that cost um maybe not the full 40,000 increase this is kind of my position on it but somewhere between um some kind of increase for that uh the digital campaign or the marketing campaign that she was explained to try to pull more people in uh because that would have that benefit I think that we'd see economic impact around just not only downtown but hotels and all around Norman you're right yes ma' just need a little clarification so we're still working through this like we see these tax returns and whatnot and we're revisiting this topic about how much we're funded we'll have to at the very end okay we'll have to these are they final submissions but for us to make a decision some more information is needed we're going to change some things like at the at the Depot so we're going to have to come around again and and and make that decision uh say yay nay plus we're going to have to make it on di so typically that would be when you approve the the proposed budget but we can revisit these funding requests at another finance committee meeting okay should be easy because we've already gone over yesterday yeah on that same line um so we talked with Anthony before about uh what it costs the festival for City Services yeah yeah and Anthony didn't recommend that we wave the fees but uh allocating funding that they can you basically yeah give them and they give it right back to us but I I very interested in covering finding a way to cover whatever that City cost is to close the street whatever Services we're providing that that's not coming out of the pocket of the festival and because I agree like we got a festival but we're making them pay us to provide that stuff when it's bringing thousands of visitors and and I think it's Prett it's not Beyond on average probably each attendees if they're saying the three days they're spending $200 for sure uh most likely on food and drinks and if they're staying somewhere or a hotel or whatnot so I mean I think we could justify that for sure and could justify increasing it too if we have the if you know information that council members are requesting is provided oh yes yeah I like that point yeah can you guys provide us with information on what we charge the festival I believe she has that in her proposal oh it's um oh in her proposal uh page 141 of packet um so well so $27,800 is that what I that's just that's just the breakout of what I mean yeah I don't do we pay for the electrician I think they they pay for the electrician we pay $1,300 we pay or um we would pay that' be 1300 plus ,100 okay let me phrase the request can I see information from the city's financials on what we either charge them or what they pay us that and just uh since we're all clear so when we see the tax returns not being a CPA um what are we looking for when we're going through well I would prefer to see the prior Year's financial statements so what they spent yes overall okay gotcha I would like to see the detail because this this doesn't provide me with anything to justify a request whereas the other organizations provided a annual report and their tax returns and audited financial statements or some kind of financial statement but I have I don't have anything to go on I was kind of hoping to it be like you you might want to check out this line on the tax but it looks I looked at my email she did submit uh an income statement for last year it doesn't look like it made it into the packet so that was our mistake but um we'll get that we'll get it we'll get in 10 minutes kind of thing yes sir yeah I'm I feel like we could justify the full increase that they're asking for based on the festival performance we could uh and I I definitely want to revisit that when we have some more information that Council toy is asking but I'm definitely open to once we get all the information I'm definitely open time to look at it because I mean it's 5:30 yeah know it's gone by fast um I did have a question to look at it right now I did have a question for Jennifer Baker if possible about the theater sure um just so and this is Nancy too n so [Music] $23,170 and I know uh we're going trying to get together and talk about some that but uh but what uh what kind of things are you as the theater needing that increase for yeah I'll tell you um we all know everything's gone up even with the amount of growth that our little theater has seen yeah um we've not increased our staff since 2009 either we which we need to do that somehow but um you know we we're talking about accessibility and I know Helen and Stephen I know we've talked or we're going to I'm going to show y'all um the theater and what we're thinking about and dreaming about but accessibility is huge to us right now and we want to hire an interpreter for our performances and we do we do 46 performances of our own it's about a show a week we can't afford to do one for every show but we're looking at maybe we could do one for every run of a show um so like the Saturday afternoon or a Sunday afternoon will be always the the one that has the as interpreters set it and honestly we started it years ago we did it on Sunday MAA and we just couldn't afford it anymore we had to um we've increased security we've we've hired some security um and that's been a cost that we didn't um expect um we have a very healthy scholarship program and for those of you that don't know me so I'm going to get real personal real quick but then I won't ramble I'll try to hurry because I know you want to get out of here um we had 237 scholarship requests this year um and we give some years up to 50,000 in scholarships and that's probably not a great for the business-minded it's probably not a great we shouldn't give that much for the size of our organization but we do and we're never turning away a child ever it's our philosophy we are not turning them away and I grew up in Norman Oklahoma and you're looking at the scholarship child and if it weren't for all of us my first show was 5 years old at city of Norman rotary house and I was a Georgia Peach but you know that changed my life and when I got here 21 years ago and she gets tired of hearing me say it but I don't get you know I thought we were just going to put on shows Katherine you've got a daughter that's done it you know I thought oh it's all just about shows it's not really about shows it's about these kids finding a place to belong and these kids finding their people and there are some days we walk out of there we're not sweating and tired from the rehearsal we're just like what just happened this poor kid they need it they need it and we think and I'm so proud of this team at the sooner theater it's just we need more we need we need more panss um we we got 1,200 kids um and that's all in addition to the regular sooner theater programming too so we've just grown and um everything's more expensive and that's kind of where we are right now your report says you haven't uh had an increase since 2009 right we for I've had this kind of philosophy that you give us a building well okay we rent a building for a dollar a year um you give us a building you give us some startup cash it used to go towards the the director I think for years that it paid the director I think Anthony was talking little bit how that changed um you give us startup money you give us a building and if you can't make a go of it there's a problem yeah um and we have made a go of it and um you know we started with three employees when I got there and we've got six now we need more um and as we the next couple of years you know we hav't asked because there's some dreams there's some things we want to do in the future and you feel like well just kind of be sensitive to what the budget looks like every year with you guys but um we've got to take care of some accessibility issues coming up um that's legal we have to we have to and we've got some ideas and I can't wait to just walk some of you through and and show you what I think we can do um there's a a man that I'm I'm currently in the leadership Oklahoma class and we're touring these communities every month for 4 days and it's an honor to be a part of it but I am so proud every session because I think God Mormon's got it going on we really do from the help with the homeless to what we do with our downtown to we've got it going on um but I've been jealous a few times some of their theaters and this place the sooner is amazing and the parks has done an incredible job taking care of it but there's some things we need to do accessibility wise so that's next on the horizon yeah yeah I fully support it and I mean I know what you mean about you know it is all about the kids and I know how much what you guys are there for the kids because I know several people in our community whose kids have grown up through sooner theater I mean for years and years and years so I know how important that program for those kids are it's really important I had two of them yeah they had a good time and and they learned what they were supposed to learn and now one's a special education teacher the other one's an art teacher I love it good for I mean it just it fits what what goes in there but I think most people don't understand how important it is to have the creative juices going in those kids' Minds as quickly as we can get that done exactly we can't have all of us can't be mathematicians so and you know what most of them aren't looking for a career at Broadway and they they never make it but it's not about that you know it's about just giving them that opportunity to like I said find their people hone their craft and and I don't want to sit here and just pull it heartstrings but do you remember the the kid a few years ago that jumped off the I35 bridge and landed the I35 and Robinson landed in the highway he was one of our students and he lived yeah I do remember that I don't know how he lived yeah and his mom texted me that uh when he woke up and talked to the doctor he said well when can I get back to rehearsal and I thought what so it means everything to some of these kiddos and um I don't know we're we're very proud like I said I'm proud of my team we just we got to add we got to add team we got to go back and relook and add some team members and we've got 33 contract teachers but um we've only got a staff of six really five and a half um serving both buildings so anyway if you if you seem you know you have any other questions or anything else we can provide right guess not thank you thank you both okay thank you thank thanks for having okay any other questions on Tu I think that went over all the increases so yeah well let's shift to three all right item number three discussion regarding monthly Revenue expenditure reports Nate Matas so the reports of course are in the packet um I'd be happy to entertain any questions you have on uh revenue report expenditure report for the general fund and then the sales tax reports you guys comparatively of course Norman is kind of neck and neck with um what the state of Oklahoma is showing overall yeah nothing crazy except for lotton I'm not sure what's going on with lton um yeah the last couple of months but I think they got Long John Silvers yeah that must be it yeah on the summary right here uh this is page 147 of the pack I mean I I just noticed this large negative 495 do you know what that is or what has caused it's the um major water fund Revenue sources and it is the user fees institutional is that paid out for water am your your pack is different pages than mine I apologize page where you are well this I printed this this weekend so it might be right underneath your thumb there 147 institutional so the 4.95 you're looking at is yeah that percent change that's a very large unusual number do you know what that might be caused by 2005 and this is in water fund I believe that's u a different in how they were those were OU payments and they were um I think calculating the receivable incorrectly okay and they figured it out and corrected it so that's that was in Prior year okay yeah all right I think the rate changed too because they had a superior rate and then they went to a normal rate not sure about that but I know that there was an issue with the receivable calculation but you're probably correct there too it was something I just yes sir um so yeah we talk about that this e each month but we're seeing slightly negative numbers overall this year or this fiscal year so far but negative in the sense that we're comparing to record highs correct um and other communities maybe lot and they were not having such a high as we were the last three years so it's kind of hard to really compare um because it's just unprecedented levels of sales tax revenue coming in and then it looks like we're lower but we're still we're still significantly higher than the average levels back in 2019 before uh this new era yeah I've been calculating after this calculating on a per capita basis Anthony tells me that is not correct procedure and uh but to me it gives me a scale that doesn't move as quickly it's not as volatile it just seems to how much per head are we earning and and it's itty bitty but you can see the there's really not much variation it's good and flat yeah and and I just I have to explain it to myself I guess in that manner because when I see it go up and down I think what did we do well there wasn't a cause and effect it just is and you know did you know somebody buy 200 Xboxes over the well is that used Tax too over the Internet Internet with used Tax yeah um I mean I couldn't figure it out that's why I just started doing that for myself until I asked Anthony he told me that wasn't right but I'll still do it this is a wonderful depiction this chart that shows the last five years because you can see how the last three years are uh receipts have risen and really have maintained that that Trend yeah but then it makes it look like if there's if there if it goes down and get all from that high it makes it look like we're in the negative when we're well and compare it to cost of living to discounted back and we're losing money uh so I don't do that calculation anymore well I think it's interesting too because um you know Moore is tracking at you know negative 1.96 for the year and we're at negative 0.49% for the year so it's like the South Metro and because Midwest City is also in that negative for the year too 058 so it's like the I don't know this part of the Metro is not into decline but it's not Rising as fast as it was the last 3 years I I don't know if we I'd be I don't know about including it every month but I might I'd be interested to see like what Mustang and UK they're much so much smaller towns but they make up like the western edge of the Metro I know there's a lot of growth happening in Oklahoma City that way so um because Oklahoma City is just maintaining they're the only city that's really in this area that is or 800 continuing to increase yeah cuz even Edmund is just at 0 58% above so they're you know tracking slower too so um but it is always interesting to see how we compare like that and and how these record highs continue to kind of maintain at that level and why too you know it's the why because it it also you know with all the discussion about businesses closing you know small businesses that aren't closed but are telling us they're having a hard time and struggling and then we're looking at our thing we're like we're bringing in like record sales tax revenue Citywide so it's kind of like business are struggling but also record sales are happening at the same time doesn't mean that those people are shopping at that store or eating at that restaurant but it's just a kind of a interesting thing when you're like business are struggling restaurants closing but the same time overall spending seems to be way up that's why I tried to do it on consumer price index because that was supposed to take care of but it's the wrong thing it's groceries and all kinds of other stuff not concrete and wood and those things are driving up so it's not there's no comparative index and then what is our current Surplus number right now oh in the general fund um yeah last month I think Anthony said it was 13 million talked about it you know we're spending those so you know but our Surplus was still pretty healthy unless we count in ideas for other purchases yes um I'm not I'm not super well versed with uh the chief accountant's uh appropriation reports here but um if this is accurate it it shows ending fund balance at 16 million in the general fund on page 16 okay 147 but we identified that psst expenditures Transit expenditures many of which may be one time expend so they kind of make it ex skew a little bit but um you know that we couldn't maintain that level of spending over a number of years without drawing that number way down so um but I try to ask that every month to see kind of where we're sitting with that Surplus and thinking about the onetime expenditures we might be able to address with that and so on so appreciate that anything else from cast all right how you doing everyone would you please come up yes Stephen will you take the meeting for a moment please oh sure so update okay um so as we know I have a charter um that I delivered to you all for your review and approval um from that there's a a policy procedures for ordinance with my mind right now yeah there a we need the order Community to approve the charter once that is done um we have a policy and procedures that is enacted into uh Norman policy and then I'm now are currently finalizing the internal audit internal policy and procedures while simultaneously um developing the risk assessment which will be used to develop a risk-based audit plan um and on top of that I am also doing a risk management process because I learned today that management has never done a risk assessment of their own department so now I'm going to have to provide a Citywide risk assessment before doing the audit plan uh I mean uh for the management risk assessment plus my own risk assessment um and also develop a quality assurance and Improvement program that will come after I well the risk assessment is designed um it's going to start in March I have the interview question interview question so the first week of March I will be sending out questionnaires to directors and line managers of each department um people or Personnel who handle key functions such as accounts payable uh the pr car program things like that uh and from there we will be able to decide our highest priorities as far as uh the audits that will be planned and the engagements that will take place I currently am reviewing a contract uh with the city one of the agencies they will it looks like we're going to go into renegotiation of the contract because of the findings I will deliver that report to you um hopefully at the end of the month I'm meeting with uh Daryl Katherine and Anthony to discuss that also with the agency director to give her an opportunity to um provide some corrective action the corrective action plan on how we will address those things um but right now I am currently finalizing so I anticipate the internal audit policy and procedure internal policy right for the department will be about 60 Pages give or take five I'm at page 42 right now and I'm finalizing that I'm finalizing the risk assessment design so I am excited for what March will bring March is a risk assessment month where I will bring a risk assessment report and I'm I would like to think I'm uh ahead of schedule as far is what the steps are in providing an audit plan July 1st um so I will have the entire march to do the risk assessment of all 13 departments uh and that will go into creating the audit plan for the next three years it oh oh I've also been a I think it was approved uh I am canvasing a software case management software Opex is built on the yellow book government auditing standards which will streamline a lot of the auditing processes since it is a one woman Department right now it it would just kind of help with a lot of the administrative things that has to be done as far as the steps of an audit um so I've conferenced with them they've uh done demos with me and the budgets right now just trying to get that stuff lined up but they give me a price and everything so hopefully that's approved and we can have op be kind of an assistant to the audit process um I spoke to Daryl today as as I repeat but um he told me that there has never been a risk assessment done for the city uh dep part Citywide or Department uh for the 13 department so before I actually go on a risk assessment to uh develop an audit plan I have to do a risk management assessment to see how management is basically um managing risk yeah of the city um of projects programs and things like that as I sit in these meetings as well I hear that um there are agencies receiving arpa funds so that may very well be a part of my list as well because arpa um from my understanding audit uh risk assessments are required for any agency uh receiving arpa funds okay and audits so that that's kind of been added as well um to this risk assessment so where we are and you wen't here so I repeated um we have a charter that is to be approved by audit committee we have a uh policy and procedure that is by ordinance I believe and then we have the internal audit policy and procedure which I'm finalizing right now simultaneously while doing the risk assessment and then March will be me performing the risk assessment and then April hopefully I'll be able to um decide with of course Council and Order committee um what departments programs functions key function in the city should be top priority as far as an audit goes so I'm excited you charging right along questions from making progress yeah questions from Council on Shakur's report that was easy right [Laughter] got no better to be prepared yes they not prepared yes I was prepared for testimony on Tuesday and get to the courthouse and about to open the door and the attorney says well we settled like okay I'll to go the fun out of it took all the fun out of it let me say something right right um so I'm thinking I'm the blank I want to deliver a report to you all um I know Council makes decisions on who we contract with as far as the city um Outside Agency so I have to deliver this report to you okay um but before I do that I have to give management an opportunity to make corrective actions and and do those things so hopefully at the end of March I can deliver that report to you and then roll on to PO performing risk assessments and risk management assessments we'll be here me too thank you very much thank you thank you all anything else from Council or J thank you