e e e e e e missing yeah no well good afternoon and welcome to the Oklahoma City uh Planning Commission and we are excited to have a full house here today um and I do I'm aware that uh on with this uh agenda for today we have many um important um and very serious issues that we're going to be discussing today and I'm aware and as I'm sure uh my fellow Commissioners will agree that there is nothing more personal than what happens in your home and what you think will impact your home and there is nothing more important than than you feeling safe and secure in your own neighborhood and we take that very seriously and despite the fact that we're going to be discussing some very serious issues today what I'd ask of you is that we all remember our Oklahoma shared values and that is to treat each other with respect with dignity and with fairness and so today as we are going through this process and talking about these challenges I'm going to need your help in making sure that we can treat each other with the fairness and respect that we all deserve and that's worthy of this process so in so doing that let's start with just a few grar rules first we will only be call unless you are an applicant we will only be calling on people who have completed this form it's a form that you need to fill out that's on the desk in the front you'll have to complete that form in order for us to call on you we once you have you will have five minutes to address the commission um and what I mean by that is you're addressing the commission you may have strong opinions about an applicant and what they've done you might have questions for other speakers when you come to the microphone you here to address the commission specifically um five minutes is what you'll have and uh Jeff Butler our planning director will announce when you have 30 seconds remaining please be respectful of your time limit we want to make sure that all of your neighbors get the opportunity to be heard and the only way we can do that is if we're all respectful of adhering to the time um we also would love for you to consider consider if you and your neighbors are here all sharing the same concern please consider appointing one person from your group to speak on behalf of all of those issues so if everybody on your block is worried about an issue whatever that may be picking one person to speak on behalf of all of you will make it easier for us to hear it and more cohesive otherwise we would ask you to please refrain from uh giving bringing up repetitious issues if we heard it once from your neighbor please please give us additional issues to consider um also please refrain from using any foul language when addressing the commission um my 90-year-old grandmother is going to be watching this Planning Commission hearing I would love to be able to tell Graham that I would I made sure that people follow the rules and represented Oklahoma proudly um on at this meeting so I'd ask for your assistance with that um so all in all let's remember the Golden Rule let's remember who we are as Oklahomans as we are going through this process so that being said uh let's begin with the receipt of the minutes from the previous meeting I'll move approval that we received amance from the um March 28th 2024 meeting commissioner pow moves that we receive the minutes from the March 28th 2024 meeting that motion's been seconded by commissioner Meek please cast your votes and the motion passes we're now in line for continuance requests and we'll begin with uncontested requests item 14 case excuse me c 7639 requested defer to April 25th item 15 Case C 7643 defer to April 25th item 16 case Spud 1597 deferred to May 23rd item 17 case CPA 20235 deferred to May 23rd and item item 18 case PC 10920 has been withdrawn is there anyone here that was intending to be heard on any of those items items 14 through 18 seeing none we're ready for a motion I'll move approval of the uncontested continuance requests commissioner Powers moves to uh approval approve excuse me of the uncontested continuance requests is read that motion's been seconded by commissioner Noble please cast your votes and the motion passes um we're now in line for new requests we have one new request item 12 case PUD 2001 requested AER to May 23rd is there anyone here that was wishing to be heard on item 12 all right just need a motion I I need approve I I make a motion to continue item number 12 PUD 2001 until what date I'm sorry May 23rd until May 23rd commissioner Powers moves to Grant the continuance request for item 12 to the May 23rd meeting of the Planning Commission that motion's been seconded by commissioner Newman please cast your votes and the motion passes we're now in line for the consent docket item one is KC 7638 final plat of Creekside Village Phase 2 located south of Southwest 29th Street and East of South Czech Hall Road item two is case 76 uh C 7642 final plat of Valencia tract H located north of Northwest 178 Street and East of North May Avenue and item three is KC 7645 final plat of Springs at Skyline Trails Edition section three located east of Cemetery Road and North of Reno Avenue is there anyone here that intended to be heard on items one two or three seeing none we're looking for a motion I'll move approval of items one two and three on the agenda C 7638 C 7642 and C 7645 when did I say I was moving approval didn't I yeah okay commissioner Powers moves approval of the consent docket as read that motion is seconded by commissioner Le Forge please cast your votes and the motion passes we're now in line for items requiring a separate vote and we'll begin with item four this is case sv24 application requesting a variance to section 5.4.2 Point E5 of the subdivision regulations to allow a private drive to be named Centennial Drive located west of South Lincoln Boulevard and South of East Reno Avenue good afternoon Mark zitzow with Johnson and Associates addresses one Sheron Avenue uh before us aest to name a uh Private Drive that exists today many of you probably used it uh visiting lower Bricktown uh right now the sign out there says Centennial Avenue uh the trucky yard development which is a new entertainment venue uh going south of the boulevard right where Jared's hand is uh is having trouble getting deliveries the city's been addressing off of Centennial Drive uh for about 15 20 years uh and the street name says Centennial Avenue so there's a discrepancy in the City system what we did bring uh was a uh screenshot from the city's website that shows Centennial Drive the addresses the street sign that's Centennial AV and we are requesting Centennial Drive be placed and the developer uh is paying for the street sign to be replaced gotcha but we do believe that the city was the one who installed the original street sign and the only way that we could move forward since it is private was with this application gotcha this is in w 7 I'm in full support um of getting the name being straightened out are there any questions from Commissioners on item four client spent way too much money on that all right fair enough um would Age there is no one signed up to speak any other comments questions from Commissioners seeing none we're looking for a motion I'm of approval of item number 4 SV 0024 commissioner pow moves to recommend approval of SV 0024 to city council that motion has been seged by commissioner Meek please cast your votes and the motion passes thank you thank you we're in line for item five item five is KC 7640 final plat of Magnolia Harbor phase one uh located south of Northwest 23rd Street and West of over holster Drive in a variance to section 5.2.8 pointb of the subdivision regulations good afternoon marks it's Johnson and Associates W Sheran Avenue before you is a final that you've heard once before there were uh lot line reconfigurations and the density went down but it went down past the administrative approval so we're back before you today uh we we've received one letter from a neighbor that uh isn't so much concerned necessarily about this phase uh but a later phase has a stub street that ties in so we talked to that neighbor I don't know if he's here today he may seek to show up when we get to the the later platting phase of this project uh there are five tees we're in agreement with all of them we do not need the variance on item four we're going to agree to put in uh the temporary access for emergency services so the variance is not needed on this one it'll be the same for our next case it'll be the same that we don't need a variance on either correct okay any questions from Commissioners we have no one sign up to speak seeing none we're looking for a motion to approve I'll move approval of item number five c764 commissioner Powers moves approval of c764 the motion is seconded by commissioner Newman please cast your votes and the motion passes we're in line for item six this is KC 7641 final plat of Magnolia Harbor Phase 2 located south of Northwest 23rd Street and West of overh over holer drive and a variance to section 5.2.8 pointa of the subdivision regulations Mark sit out when he Sheran Avenue uh companion item from the last one we do not need the variance uh that's listed in the tees we agree with all other tees any any questions from Commissioners we have no one signed up to speak seeing none looking for a motion to approve all mo approval of item number five c764 item number six c76 41 we approved 40 right I'm sorry 41 uh commissioner Powers moves to approve of C 7641 subject to the technical evaluations included in the staff report that motion's been seconded by commissioner Meek please cast your votes and the motion passes thank you we're in line for item seven this is C 7644 final plat of Lincoln Meadows located south of Northwest 122nd Street and East of North council road narian to section 5.3.1 point d.520 with NAFA engineering for for this project uh We've Incorporated the changes from the last meeting we've added two stub streets one on the east one on the west one of them is 150 ft one is 175 Our intention is to leave the streets unimproved at this time uh we'd like to know that any future development to the east can make the connection if and when in needed we have a variance for the 175 that's in effect now and if you all would like to change that to be a paved area we can remove the variants and and the houses that are in here now are are going to be sprinkled and approved by the fire marshall okay so so the question is on te2 on the variance and so can you just make sure I make sure we can clarify the question that you're asking the question the question well part of the question is we're not Paving the streets we're leaving an unapproved we have a variance for the 175 to make it unimproved okay so if if there were developments on either side they would then have to PVE on your in your easement they would they would pave it at that time to connect to the next site I'd rather see it completed today now me too I agree yeah other thoughts Commissioners so the if we're not in agreement it sounds like the variance then is not needed if we're saying he needs to pave it we don't need to take any action on the variance correct correct staff on that Barry you're saying what I'm saying is correct okay just want to make sure isn't there's something about the length of that stub also so there there is a a variance right no go ahead Jared yeah Jared Martin planning department um so the if if in the subs it gives them the ability to uh to not pave the uh the stubs as long as they're 150 ft or less is the is the requirement um and they were requesting the variants to allow not to pave a 175 ft piece but if you're going to require them to pave those then they won't need the variance gotcha so okay just to be clear What Becomes of te number two are we striking it are we amending its language it's unenforceable without us explicitly approving the variance so either way does it because it's not enforceable unless we explicitly state that I'll let Council correct me if I'm wrong on that right can't be subject to the variance if it doesn't get approval that's it and I'm so I think we should just strike it for the sake of some Simplicity I think you could strike that te and then you probably though would need to add a te to require them to to pave it that's what I'm think okay but that's why I was wondering what did what would the code require without the B so that if if the stubs are less than 150 ft the the subs allow it either way by right so they can pave it or not pave it it's really their choice instead of the first one's there but if the stub Street was going to be in excess of 150 ft which this will be one of them will be one of them will be so so if we took no action the one that exceeds 150 will automatically require Paving the other one would not so if we're wanting the other one to include the paving we're going to have to explicitly include that as a te right okay yeah okay we don't do that all the time but I I think we should include that as a te okay any thoughts not at this time okay then I think we just need a motion commissioner Noble you want to try it commissioner Powers oh I'm sorry did you want I got it okay okay I uh I'll move to approve uh recommend approval C 7644 with te number one is as listed te number two being changed to require both stub streets to be paved and T number three as in the record uh commissioner Meek moves to approve of c764 subject to the amended technical evaluations as read into the record that motion has been seconded by commissioner privet please cast your votes and the motion passes okay thank you thank you we're in line for item eight this is case number c1121 application to close a portion of the platted Lucille Avenue between blocks 46 and 47 of new Allah OT amended Edition uh east of South Hara Road and south of Booker Avenue uh yes my name is darl sha and my wife Tracy and I are the applicants on here and we are this is in newala Township it was platted in 1907 and every other Street and Alley in there that hasn't already been developed has been vacated and closed or closed and vacated already so this street is actually kind of a road to nowhere it's landlocked as it goes as it is right now and we're we we will be building a uh training facility so we're just trying to give us a little extra breathing room on the end of there so pick up another 30 feet I believe it is so just trying to get more room all right and you've read have you read the the technical evaluation requiring uh a topographic survey yes I submitted one with the so you're in you're all good with that though yes okay commissioner privet anything yeah um first I will uh note that this uh special permit has been uh recommended approval U by the City of Oklahoma City um and with that I will uh recommend approval to the city council uh commissioner is it subject to our approval it's going to the it's going to city council yeah um commissioner privet uh moves to recommend to city council approval of CE 1121 subject to the technical evaluation in the staff report that motion is seconded by commissioner Meek please cast your votes oh I'm sorry and the motion passes thank you we're in line for item nine item nine is case SP 587 application for a special permit to operate a Moder impact institutional Charter School in the i1 district located at 4149 Highland Boulevard you is there an applicant present afternoon I'm Don caspr DP development company and owner of West Park Business Center and we'll be uh leasing to the charter school and uh we we are all all the issues that would would need to be taken care of we feel can be taken care of with the development of it we glad to answer any questions that any of you might have of me okay uh commissioner Meek yes I uh I spoke with the applicant representative uh Mrs BS and uh ask her to uh have a little bit more information for us today regarding this application and so uh I believe um we have some additional drawings the only question I that concerned me we had one letter of protest uh and I don't believe anyone signed up chairman no okay uh the only issue that concerned me was the queuing lane for drop off and pickup and making sure that it wasn't going to affect other businesses Andor uh come out onto the street or the service road so uh my screen's broke so I'm going to have to share but I I believe that uh there was an updated rendering what is this the rendering we're talking about um okay yes the one on screen yeah might ask the architect to come up and talk to us be great he's dressed really good today he is three piece for us thank you uh Richard Starks PO Box 2618 Blanchard Oklahoma and this is the um revised give us one second this the first I've got to see it so walk us through yeah there is a second sheet also it's a blow up of closer to the property what you do okay that one is a parking uh it was the second sheet on the last file that's yes and that's the blow up of you know the actual property hey uh after speaking with Miss BS she estimated like year one is 150 students year four to five Max 400 I believe uh so we were looking at the type of queuing Lane that this would require and I don't have the footage or Dimensions but it uh the only protest letter that we received was south of um Highline which is a divided uh divided uh Street and I don't affect I don't believe would affect those those businesses to the South so any Commissioners any other comments I I think the uh prevailing use is industrial um while I'm okay with the special permit since it doesn't require any new construction we're just using an existing facility and it's better to just do that then for it to not be in use I don't have any issues but I would certainly object to any new construction that was not consistent with the industrial nature of the surrounding area right um so um and just to be clear on commissioner Meek's comments regarding the student population there's no stipulation or limit on the student population as far as our special permit so just important to keep in mind unless we're going to include that there's no enforceability behind the the population right but which doesn't affect my vote but yeah but occupancy occupancy limits will be in play which which would be taken care of at the permit process and there is a te that uh te number one limits them to just this subject building anything they can't keep growing without coming back to a special permit uh additional so yeah I might add if it was zoned I2 this would not be a requirement but it is zoned i1 and that's just the difference in the two districts right did not know that so that's good to know so I've got a question looking at back going back to the queing I did the math and uh commissioner Meek and I talked about this earlier and he mentioned 350 students and I did the math if you had 350 cars which you're probably obviously not going to that's a little bit over a mile worth of cars are all of these students going to be coming in at the same time because right now it looks like you've got the queueing backing up onto the service road which is also the onramp to to I40 actually the uh this property was a um call center once before so the population of this will actually be substantially less than what it was before shouldn't cause any traffic or parking issues at all I also did verify that there is busing at this at for this charter school so there will be buses some so not everybody's a drop off and pick up oh that's good that's certainly the intention but again I don't think that is in the permit the special permit though so just to be aware but I'm glad to have that assurance and commissioner Meek and I have talked about this there is a facility in Norman that's very similar it's an industrial area and it has a significant drop off and pickup which does cause extremely long line that winds through the industrial area in that particular case it makes it difficult for the other businesses I I my only concern with it is just the queing uh particularly going backing up onto an on-ramp and access to I40 so my children actually go to that school that you're talking about and it takes a couple weeks but it is a well oiled machine and the school keeps everybody from blocking the other entrances and they have Flyers like this that go out um and then this is what we would uh what the school would give to the parents for the traffic pattern so not everyone uh would be in this line at one time some of the students will be able to drive this would just be for parents drop off and pick up so it wouldn't it would never be all of the students that were in line at one time uh for this Mr Stark could you speak to the parking counts yes that was the other sheet uh we did a a analysis of the existing spaces it's primarily office and warehouse and we came up with a surplus of 79 parking spaces including the portion uh that we've got under permit for the school finish out right now okay good any other commissioner comments regarding this looks like we're ready for a motion okay if if uh there's nothing else I am prepared to recommend approval of uhp 587 commissioner Meek moves to recommend the city council approval of SP 587 subject to the technical evaluation in the staff report that yeah we're locked up I think we're having some technological issues bear with us all right the motion's been made Again by commissioner Meek to recommend the city council approval of SP 587 that motion's been seconded by commissioner privet please cast your votes and the motion passes thank you thank you thank you for your consideration we're now in line for item 10 item 10 is PUD 2000 application to rezone uh 111000 North I35 service road from PUD 701 good afternoon David box 522 call Cord drive here on behalf of the applicant who is also here with us today uh this is for a PUD that would allow for a Blue Beacon Truck Wash to be constructed their current facility which has been in operation for about 50 years is just over a mile to the south and west of I35 so this would replace that uh it's in an area that is dominated by large industrial warehouses uh the effort to reone Simply keeps the Bas as i1 but adds the single uh use necessary for the truck wash there is a series of exhibits in your packet that would show you the elevations the site plan and the signage as it relates to signage there is one te that we cannot agree with what we would propose for signage is what you will see on uh the exhibit Jared if you could share that go one one more one keep going keep going there we go so under the new sign code under our base zoning what would we what we would be afforded is five separate pole signs at 40 feet in height each of them containing a 200 square foot sign what we are proposing is one sign of a of a pole variety that would be 50 feet in height so yes we are asking for 10 ft higher than what it would otherwise allow but however instead of having five individual 40ft signs we will uh put all of them on the single pole to reduce clutter so we think overall it's a better scenario for the city and the driving public so we would ask to strike te1 we also need to add a te that deals with Section 9.8 as it relates to the 55 ft curb cut uh out of an abundance of caution just so that when we get the plan review it is viewed correctly we need to make sure that that 55 ft is measured uh at the Dy dve Isle approach excluding the radi or otherwise as the width appears on the exhibit we've talked to staff staff seems comfortable with that uh I'm happy to answer any questions thank you this is in my ward I did have a meeting with the applicant um regarding this application um obviously we're all very sensitive to um the new sign code and um but it's one of the intentions I think of of the of the new code is for us to minimize clutter and while I'm not a huge fan of a a taller sign I do think it is a good compromise to know that we don't be down to one poll sign instead of four or five four we could have five 40 foot signs okay so um I'm in full support of that obviously in support of of the use given the industrial area that surrounds this along I35 so I'm in full support any questions from Commissioners we do have one person signed up to speak by the way we want to hear from them first yep okay um Jeremy jet please give us your name and address for the record and when you have 30 seconds remaining we'll let you know I won't need that much Jeremy jet I I'll use the address of 4401 East Hefner I'm the the neighbor directly south where the building American Metal Supply that'll that'll be touching it so no objections in fact we drive tractor trailers to be handy for us just wanting more information from the applicant I did meet with Dawn the director of real estate today so I think we'll be able to get what we need from him but uh there is a ton of elevation so we're lower than they are so we're just looking for information on the drainage making sure it's not going to affect us flood our parking lots obviously uh any kind of chemicals that'll be in the air that would affect the products that we sell um coming coming down to us traffic he did show me where the uh cutouts are going to be further north in the service road uh a concern of ours is just making sure that's going to be able to handle as much um that'll be waiting in line that it's not going to back up down the service road and and block our entrance and then um beyond that there is showing on there plan right there you can barely see it I've got a cut out of our parking lot that that goes up and over um where their line supposed to be yeah right there so U just needing to talk to them about if if that's an issue if that's the if that's where their line is I don't know we've been there a decade now so um that's it really for me just uh just wanted to have an opportunity to come here and and meet with them and get the info we need to feel comfortable is there anything that we can do as far as this application um that that concerns you I mean you tell me I'm I'm ignorant I've never been to a Planning Commission before I have no idea my the the owner of the company said hey will you go there and ask a few questions I said sure well I would recommend you have continued conversations um with the applicant as this application will go on to the city council in six weeks so you'll have some time to get some more questions answered I'd also recommend you reach out to Barry Lodge Barry if you raise your hand Barry Lodge is just an excellent expert in public works and um so he might be able to answer I I shouldn't say might he can definitely answer your drainage question and I'll I'll spare him from having to give my usual request for our lecture on the city's uh review of of drainage issues today so maybe you can can visit with him but I I'll visit with him I appreciate that okay thank you guys thank you so if I understood one of your issues is sort of where the driveway will be set you want to you want to clarify that he showed me yeah and and that's it's that's ideal it's it's further north I still would like to know off the service road that their you know their their customer flow isn't going to be overflowing out into the service road so they've got queuing capability on site okay so as you're talking between now and city council you'll want to make sure those things are detailed in the documents okay thank you so much thank you we have no one else signed up to speak Commissioners any other questions seeing no questions we're ready for a motion just need a motion to recommend approval subject to uh elimination of te1 and the creation of te2 David would would you mind giving us that for the record one more time sure I've got it the 55 foot uh shall be measured at the approach Drive aisle excluding radi okay I've got it if you're ready yep all right I would uh like to recommend approval city council PUD 2000 with striking if te number one and adding te number two that there will be a 55 ft uh drive a measured uh 55t will be measured at the drive a not counting the radius are are you good excluding the radi is what the engineer told me it needed to say not counting excluding the radi okay uh commissioner Meek moves to recommend the city council approval of PUD 2000 subject to the revised technical evaluations as read into the record that motion's been seconded by commissioner Noble please cast your votes and the motion passes we're in line for item 11 item 11 is case Spud 1613 reone 4 East Reno Avenue from PUD 692 Spud 1326 and Downtown parking overlay districts and downtown Scenic Highway area to S Spud 1613 good afternoon Mark zit out with Johnson and Associates address is one East Sheridan Avenue with me today is the developer of the project the architectural team and Tim Johnson with our office uh this is a really exciting project that we're bring before you today uh one of the early things I'll note is that this Spud is identical from the one that was approved a couple years ago with the exception of Building height and signage Building height what we are asking for is no different than what any of the uh other downtown property have which is no cap on height we will of course go through all proper permitting uh for any height that we seek uh in the future when it comes to signage there were uh there was a te that I'll quickly address and then I'm going to turn it over to Rob to walk through uh the exhibit package in the project uh staff asked us to revise the signage section we're in agreement uh with the exception that we're going to seek to amend the language I appreciate everyone's patience on this uh we did hastily work with the city the attorney believe we now have language that they are in agreement on ultimately it is the planning commission's decision as to whether or not that language moves forward uh but where we've arrived with the city attorney's office is signage shall be per the City of Oklahoma City Sign ordinance developers shall be required to submit an overall sign and video board package were visible from the public way to be reviewed and approved by the Planning Commission with public notice provided in accordance with zoning procedures the the submitt shall include dimensions locations elevations and a visual impact study the Planning Commission reserves the right of approval or denial based upon the dimensions locations visual impacts light and sound the maximum amount of signage shall be per the dimensions shown on pages 13 and 14 of the exhibits the signage should be restricted to on premise uses only the last part of that on premise signage we did receive a letter of concern uh from an outdoor advertising company as well as the Department of Transportation we've responded to them told them that we were removing the off- premise signage and billboards and so ODOT responded thanked us as if uh they could do anything I don't know if anyone who submitted the other letter of concern is here to address it uh happy to take any questions otherwise I'd like Rob to come up walk through the project and then we can work through let's let's have Rob go through and then we'll probably have you um after we hear the present oh go ahead commissioner P yeah in that list of things that we can base our future approval on was type of signage one of those things do you it was not but I I don't know we're opposed to adding signage type were the giant signs on the side of the building take care of we're we're noting that you have approval over the dimensions and locations of all signage no so as between my point is as between um you know EMD or some other type of let's can we can we I want to make sure we can move forward so maybe we can hear from Rob and then um separate the issue of signage because I do think we're going to need to get in depth with that we do have a couple of people signed up to speak commissioner so maybe maybe we can just do you have that language in writing Mark that you might it's been provided to the city attorney's office could you if you have a quick write up that maybe commissioner Powers could see while we're listening to Rob that'd be great I it to you we are work we're working on that right now okay to get you that language okay let's let's quickly hear from Rob good afternoon uh Rob buetti with AO I'm the architect for the project so um I think you guys will go through the slides or do you want me just explain the project overall so um the project consists of um Four Towers a retail Podium and a below grade parking and then some above grade parking um uh three of the towers are 345 ft one will contain a hotel with about 400 and I have the numbers here four about 480 hotel rooms plus another 85 um service condos uh the other two lower towers are residential Towers which will include about 140 Workforce housing and about 575 76 um regular um market rate um residential apartments and then in the the tall tower which is you know what we're we're looking to do to add is um uh will contain about uh uh almost a thousand apartment units uh with another 350 or so um hotel rooms and an additional 80 or another 100 cont Windows as well as some retail on the ground floor um overall there's about 160,000 Square ft of commercial space which will be for um entertainment restaurant retail uses um below grade we have a threel uh parking structure that is dedicated for the commercial uses uh all the parking for the residential the hotel um uses are uh above grade between the the lower Podium level and the towers and and so we have dedicated parking assigned for all the residential in the hotel plus an additional I think it's about 980 spaces below grade for the commercial use um can I ask you the same question that people ask me every time this topic has come up absolutely how are you intending to build a tower this tall in the wind and storms and tornadoes of the great state of Oklahoma sure so uh I know that came up um basically the way it works for these super tall towers I mean you've seen them all over the world and high earthquake zones high wind zones uh the way it works is uh there's a firm or several firms that specialize in um an analyzing the forces that will be imposed from either a tornado or any wind event and uh they're they're able to calculate those forces is the same that we calculate uh the forces from a seismic activity or an earthquake and so those forces are then given to our structure engineer thoron Thomas edti who did Devon Tower here and uh I think they've done three of the five tallest buildings in the world and so uh with those design loads no different than what we have to design for seismically um they will Design the building to withstand the loads that are given to them as design parameters and so um they you know and then the same thing will happen with the curtain wall really is the the bigger issue which is the skin around it and designing the skin you know to sustain those same loads will also be taken care of you know through through the curtain wall process and um like I said that we're given the design loads and then we design to it so they're all solvable issues um and so that's just the process that we go through on that so how long would construction take I think the construction is uh for the first piece was roughly 24 to 30 months which the tall tower will take I think an additional 12 uh to 18 months um I think the timing of the tall towers is still to be determined whether it is built the same time or in a phased approach you know that that will come from the financing conditions so would the the smaller Towers be constructed first yes fully intended and then yes so the other the tall tower may be under construction as the others are finished or may come you know start constru the current design has the tall towers completely separated the parking below it is separate and so it was uh designed so that it could be built later uh without affecting the operation of the center uh for the three main towers and the commercial component officially um what would be the ranking there was a debate among when I talked to some staff about um where where this ranks in the world as far as height I think it's it's uh third it'll be number one in the country all right and um I think it will be number six or seven it changes all the time and we just found out there's one they're building a I think it's like 6,500 foot Tower I think in Saudi Arabia right now so they keep going up uh but it it'll put you in the top 10 in the world uh for sure um okay last kind of frivolous question question so how long will it take to get from the ground floor all the way to the top in an elevator uh well if you saw our core I mean the elevators uh they service different floors and so they uh uh it probably uh wouldn't take too long maybe a minute or more uh because the way we do it is uh certain elevators won't stop until they get to a certain level and then they service let's say 20 or 30 floors at a time so I think in that in in the plan we have 15 or 16 elevators in the core uh to serve the different levels different uses so and then there'll be an OB observation up at the top level there's going to be an observation level similar to what they've done at One World Trade Center you know so you you know be a place you can go there'll be a restaurant up there so and and I understand there was some concern from Tinker and perhaps the FAA about the height any response oh we haven't received uh we saw the stuff from Tinker we haven't received the formal response from the FAA yet I uh I checked yesterday they said they were through seven of the 10 uh you know entities that needed to weigh in on it and so uh you know we'll once we get their comments we'll just work through through them with them we believe we're outside the main Zone but just because of the height you know I think that they'll have some some say in it um but the intent is to work work with the FAA um to to gain their approval uh and then I believe that that would then carry over into the Tinker Air Force Base because I believe that the real controlling Authority is the FAA on the matter okay should I ask my market questions to you or to you rob who's the who's the best person my questions about demand demand yeah is that is that you or is that is this a if you build it they will come what market analysis was done to determine that the great state of Oklahoma needs the world's the uh wait third we establ the third largest oh in the in the world in the world probably be sixth or seventh largest in the country large tallest in in the country yes how do you make that determination um tough question well I mean I believe uh you know when the project started there was a study done and I think from a hotel standpoint I think there was they said there you guys are short maybe 3,500 rooms in in Oklahoma City and then on the on the residential it really is about lease up right and so as as they start leasing the first two I think that that's where the the timing of the third Tower comes in they do believe there is demand um we've seen it um it is a little bit build it you they will come I mean you guys have your new stadiums coming in the soccer stadium so we really see that um this will be the impetus to really just create an Entertainment District um and uh you know why not be first so any other questions from Commissioners I just had a procedural question I think is there's no specific plan on this so they're going to come back with a signage but what kind of application are they going to come back with the form for sure any other questions for for Rob before we ask signage questions I do okay go ahead in the um materials that you provided to us there's a breakdown between the types of residential um development within the tower some luxury some affordable some Workforce honestly I'm not sure what the difference between those two things is if there's an actual definable um difference or or if there even is a real definition for for instance affordable um but in the event that some modified version of the tower gets built I I don't find anything that indicates that those first of all I'm not sure what you've provided us is any kind of commitment to provide those types of housing um especially the affordable and or Workforce I'm curious about that and maybe staff has a has a view of that but I I would also like to know whether you know some percentage of those can be derived that can be built in in the event that some modified version of the tower is built sure um the the the 140 Workforce housing are in the in the phase one towers of the uh so they will exist in one of the first two residential Towers to be built as part of that project the 48 uh affordable um really are built in the base of the tall tower those would be built um regardless of whether uh it was 1900 feet 800 feet or 300 feet so um I believe that those were part of the original um approval process several I wasn't involved in the original approval of this project but uh I believe that they they were um part of the original approval process to provide those and I don't know if they were limited uh by an exact number or a percentage mark do you know if we approved a specific percentage or number of units as far as affordable housing yeah so so not within the zoning document all of those were worked out through Oklahoma City urban renewal and the council approval in the in the tip allocation so that's outside of this application I don't know whether I'm comfortable with that frankly I mean I I understand that there are other approvals that focus on that but um I have lately had it brought to my attention that if the document doesn't say specific things then those are subject to variation later so um if we have strong feeling about them providing Workforce and affordable housing I think it needs to be baked into the document well I I'll add that we would disagree with that I don't know that there's been precedent that in a master design statement a developer an applicant has been tethered either to rental rates or affordability on any project let let's let Municipal Council speak on that I agree I don't I don't think that that's really within our perview as far as to dictate how much should be affordable housing so zoning my only response to that is then that's just like blah blah blah blah they're telling us this in order to persuade us to approve this project but it they might as well not say a word about it because it's not part of the Pud or Spud it's not a commitment that they're making to us in writing and so how how you know it sounds like it's Tethered to their public financing from the Tiff and that that was a requirement of their agreement from the city of Oklahoma City for the Tiff correct so the enforcing mechanism would be through that not through the zoning and then Municipal council's telling us that that we can't enforce that through zoning or are you saying we can but it's not recommended I would say that's not within our perview that is problematic for me because if it's not within our purview here it's not within our perview ever but traditional I mean we have not taken into account whether it was market rate or not or rental in the past we spend a lot of time talking about the need for affordable housing in Oklahoma City true and if we don't have any mechanism to actually enforce it yeah I mean or or even just bake it in it's like you know we're no kind of housing that we approve is ever going to be really affordable as far as we're concerned we don't know we can't you know we can't guarantee that it's not really carved in stone for any kind of project that we approve so I think in this instance I think you're right and I think that's caused for concern and I think that's another one of those issues that we need to consider as we're always having an ongoing discussion about our Authority and um and policy changes that are needed in order for us to do a better job serving the public and so that should be taken into consideration in this instance though they can't get the public money unless they M unless they honor those commitments to affordable housing through their agreement with Tiff so if they're the only way that're they're going to get out of it is if the public the state state of the City of Oklahoma City is not going to provide its public support commitment through the Tiff so that's the only way to get out of it at this point well so just as long as we're doing that with our eyes open and we agree that we're comfortable with that mechanism not being in our hands and not part of this process the only other option would be for us to mandate It Anyway despite advice from Council that it's not within our Authority I don't see any point in doing that so um do we want any other any other questions on for the architect it sounds like we might need to talk about signage now we do have two people signed up to speak I don't know if we want to hear from them before we get into signage thank you thank you it's all I want um we will begin with um Cynthia and I so apologize that I'm I feel like I'm not going to pronounce your last name correctly Cen Cen Carelli good one okay I did my best yeah thank you um cythia we pronounce it cerelli um 2828 Northwest um 57th Street I represent my business um and uh my colleagues my clients and my family and friends um thank you for taking the the time um to allow our voices to be heard first of all and I would like to apologize in advance for any snarky tone or anything like that I did my best to temper this as best I could um Oklahoma City is a uh playground for investors who wouldn't want to invest in one of the fastest growing economies in the US even shark tanks Kevin o says Oklahoma is a Top Choice for investing the building first it was going to be the second tallest building in in the United States now they added aspire to make it the tallest building my con concern is why why do they want to build the tallest building in the United States you guys you all discussed about the storms we have severe storms tornado tornadoes extreme winds earthquakes Oklahoma is a One-Stop shopping are there evacuation plans in place in the event of a tornado or other disasters or there shelters that will accommodate everyone what plan is in place if a Plane full of Fuel crashes into it causing it to Tumble down isn't one terrorist attack enough on September 11th 2001 I drove home from work watching the Twin Towers burn with the prestigious Legends Tower aren't we just daring someone to do something and you you would to discussing about the affordable housing what is deemed affordable to them the Billboards the flashing lights it's a bit to me it's a bit tacky for Oklahoma City we're not Vegas we're not Times Square you don't see that kind of fanfare in Central Park in Manhattan reason why is because it's a classy part of town matter of fact the only place you see all those flashing lights is Time Square too much light pollution can can trigger those the flashing lights can trigger those with sensory issues even those without a parking garage there's three stories deep deep they'll have to dig pretty deep for the proper footing to hold the complex I know that they have Engineers that do all that kind of a thing our dirt is is hard my concern is Will other structures actually be affected by them digging down that deep I've read where people have they they build entire complexes below ground and it starts to shift the buildings around it um let's see where uh okay um although this location borders downtown which has no height restrictions there is a definite def delineation marker between downtown and Bricktown and that is the train line you go on the other side of the train line and to me it feels it's more casual more flip-flops um downtown there's more formal Vibe more you know suit and tie Vibe so saying that they they're right next to each other and because this has you know unlimited uh height restrictions and this one doesn't to me they're not even the same in the same place I'm all for growth in Oklahoma City I don't want you to think that I'm not I mean I think it's a great thing um I would love to see more you know in addition to the the skyline I mean it's beautiful when I drive down on 40 it's beautiful I love to see the paycom sent and Deon tower all lit up I don't mind that but this to me is an eyesore this is this is just one big tower that just sticks out you know all by itself um and the other thing is I'm not a fan of calling the Twin Towers in Oklahoma City it's it's just one of those things that just because I you know I grew up in New York and you know I've been there but there's to me there might be an energy around that um but I do like the plan for the other buildings I mean I like that like I said I would I don't I'd love to have uh more buildings um more people to come here um part of my idea is that if you build it they will come Oklahoma City is not a hub if I travel somewhere I have to go to Dallas to go to New York I have to go to um Colorado to Denver to go somewhere else they have to go to Atlanta to go you know to Virginia we're not a hub who's going to want to come here if we're not a hub we're not we're not an e we're not easy access unless of course the people that are coming here have their own planes and then it's not a big deal so anyway thank you for allowing me to to speak thank you next we have uh Michael Dean and you have five minutes to address the commission please give us your name and address for the record good afternoon commission my name is Michael Dean I'm at 4220 Oakbrook Drive in Dell City and I have three concerns and so starting off with it sounds like the original PUD Spud was uh done already and there might be a problem and I just call your attention to the setback so instead of a normal setbacks it's a minimum setback but as we know this building the three buildings are going to be using all of the three acres they have it as a maximum setback only thing that's uh setting back and keeping the building off of the street is the current 10-ft sidewalk that's on Reno so as I was driving in coming down Oklahoma Boulevard you're going through the train tunnel and I'm like going this is going to be just exactly what it's like you're going to have that 10 foot and then it's going to be a solid wall 80 foot tall and so it's going to be making Oklahoma City and making Brick Town congested so the concerns about it is that with the uh setback they're going to also have the ability to put tables and chairs out there so the city's not going to be able to enforce trying to keep it at the 20 foot so as you let the uh um the crowds go from the Thunder games and you have the large crowds and you have the tables out there you're going to end up having pedestrians out in the street and then for actually being on the sidewalk is is that cars driving up and down Reno could end up being onto the side walk and you would have no place to escape so it's more of a claustrophobic concern and and just a a really congested area that this building is going to be there so again I just call your attention to that the setback should be a minimum 20 foot not a maximum the uh next part is is the boardwalk is going to be placed on the southwest corner of Bricktown the sun is on the South Side you know it's always on the south side of us we're in the northern hemisphere that is going to leave Bricktown in a continuous Shadow it's going to be dark all of the pictures as we look at it doesn't quite give the uh Dimensions you know the two buildings that we expect to be built soon are going to be at least the height of the Sandridge building but closer to the height within 100 feet as you can tell on your part to the uh bank first building so imagine the bank first building used to be the biggest one and uh it's amazing so again you're going to have two huge buildings cast in The Shadow and that does not include the uh the tall tower all right and then the third one is is uh it's about the LED Billboards the concern is is is that we just saw on the um Blue Beacon car wash that there the concern is about that electronic billboard and it's a 10 foot x 10 foot that's 100 square feet if you go back to a normal electronic billboard you know that's out there that's 30 by 60 so that's 1,800 square feet what you're looking at for the uh for this sign request that they've got going on is is on each side of the four buildings it's 160 ft and yes there's a narrower side it's 120 but anyway it's a th000 foot tall and so you're at 160,000 square foot of an electronic billboard going up and down this uh building so my concern is is that over in Dall City I currently can't see the Devon Tower now many places we can we all know it we can see it anywhere in the metropolitan it's a beautiful building you guys have done a great job with this I am definitely going to be able to see this building from my back front yard and at night is is whenever you have this 180,000 or 160,000 ft billboard that's a, times thousand times the size of a normal um Interstate billboard you know sorry it's 100 times more is this you're going to have to have blackout curtains in Dell City I go out to Lake Draper to try to get away from some of the light pollution and out on Lake Draper at night it's going to be orange and blue flashing through there so I just uh really I'm very concerned about the Billboards I'm not concerned about the development I'm not concerned really about that set back you guys can solve that but anyway the light pollution is a big deal thank you thank you I think we're going to have a very robust discussion about that as well about the sign issue um any response on the concern about um safety any requirements as far as tornado shelters that you're aware of any other safety concerns that you might want to address about the architectural Integrity of the building that were mentioned setbacks that sort of thing I I'll address the setbacks I think any good Urban Design standard in a downtown area would expect a maximum setback instead of a minimum a 20 foot minimum setback is a Suburban standard across the country so that setback language is was already in the previous Spud and in terms of brickdown and downtown that matches all of the other design review districts to have a maximum instead of a minimum in terms of the safety there's a slew of Consultants working on this that'll be stand stamping and sealing all of the plans to ensure that it meets all life safety requirements any questions from Commissioners I'm trying to separate us from the architectural issues so that we can just focus on the sign issues so if that doesn't make sense to you we can obviously change it but I was trying to make the conversation easier for us so any other architectural questions I'll just say in terms of the architectural te that's in the staff report uh we're seeking to add the language at the end of that te we're in agreement with all of it we seek to add excluding areas where video boards or signage exists from that 40% calculation okay all right let's talk about the signage I just could I weigh in on architecture please just um the current design um I you know agree the urban standards we've actually opened up um a large portion of it that opens to the plaza so if you had the site plan you can see walking I mean we've changed it to actually a dress Reno so if you're walking down Reno uh you'll have a restaurant and then a large open area that opens into the large Center Plaza and then another restaurant on the ground floor so and there's seating and people yeah yeah go back one you can just there you can see that the opening is is basically where it says bar and there's the oval that's all all open underneath it's all open you can see the water so you know although there'll be areas of maybe a little tighter you know we we also open it back up so you have some you know some variety of little tighter spaces a little more intimate hoping up into the big Plaza so U you know I think that um we really wanted to address Reno and seeing everybody walking from games and baseball to really feel welcomed and and drawn into the center real quick could you uh speak to the the design requirement for uh there's been several questions regarding um buildings like this whether it's the 1907 something in between or the other buildings that are going to come first they all have to meet the area of Refuge requirements correct yes okay that's a that's a temporary temporary area where during fire or disaster that uh protects people it's built to a stronger standard yes so and and because of the size of this building the center core is going to be solid concrete maybe two three feet thick concrete walls um the stairs you know so the safety I know there's mention about a plane flying into the building um the way they're built today you know is a direct result of the you know um the outcome of obviously 911 and so the and because of the size of this Tower the the core and and those areas of protection probably one of the safer places actually to be in in a in a in a natural event so I don't know if you're going to catch me at the top on a tornado day I will say I had the honor of writing the uh fire department Express Elevator to the top of the original World Trade Center and you ask how long that takes and it was just a minute I mean it this thing flew all the way to the top wow okay well we'll certainly be excited to see it all right thank you thank you all right let's talk about signage um commissioner Powers thoughts on the language is provided well I I guess part of of my concern has to do with I would like to have the type of signage inserted into the language that's being proposed part of part of my concern is we're here today looking at uh an Spud because we don't have any process for for amending ones that is identical to the Spud that exists except in two regards the height of the building or the lack thereof height limitation and the signage so I even just to preserve and I want to make crystal clear that I want that just super tight language that whatever it is we would be deciding today we'll have the authority to decide later it's not connected to anything that limits it in any way shape or form whatever we could do today we can do later with respect to the signage but having said that then what are we really approving today with respect to the signage just our own ability to decide later I mean they're walking away from this with maybe a decision on their height limitation but and an agreement that will'll talk about their signage later I mean is that is that an appropriate use of an Spud I'd like both planning and legal to weigh in on that well I do think I think that the way they have um drafted this it is appropriate use of a ped they we're all we're doing is allowing having enough parameters within the ordinance that the council will will or will not um approve that will give the Planning Commission enough teeth in order to come back and approve the signage so as long as there's some parameters in there for you to actually look at the signage when you come back then I think that's valid so other I mean I guess what what we're what we're agreeing to today is that the signage will be in accordance with the city's sign ordinance so I think that actually should be at the end of that say except as allowed below because I'm not sure that they're going to completely be complying with the city Side ordinates so and and I I don't even want to write a blank check on that like as long as it complies with sign or is fine with me I mean you know I want to see what it is and I want us to approve what it is I don't I don't want that as a ceiling if you will um I feel the same way about the maximum amount of signage being as shown on the exhibits I'm glad that they're restricting it to on premises Usos only um I I don't I'm not sure this completely answers all of my concerns you didn't weigh in on the issue of the spod usage um I agree an ear earlier concern we had I think they've addressed with making sure that it is going to be public notice which is not the case with a with a specific plan normally uh it is a bit it's unusual uh asking for as much kind of leeway as they are but if Council approves that that the Planning Commission would have the ability to do that that's the council's prerogative so do do I understand that all of the language in the master design statement that relates to signage is being removed and replaced by this language is that accurate that is correct um the other thing I want to be very sure that we walk away from here today is that there's not going to be any signage at all build without buildings you know that there's not going to be any signage on this property without without it being attached or in some way affiliated with buildings you know we're not we're not approving a Block's worth of you know advertising so you this is this is a lot to kind of devour and process around the Horseshoe on the Fly I think um I'll let other people speak I think it might be helpful if a mark you might explain from the um applicants perspective why this method because I agree it's highly unusual that's why we've been having all these discussions you know about this method of approval could you kind of give us the rationale for that yeah so ultimately this is a large project I think it's an exciting project uh we don't want to put language in an Spud that would cause concern that if this project for any reason did not happen there was essentially a blank check for signage if we started tightening it up and saying it's limited to 100,000 square feet and we're and you're picking and choosing what you like out of this and what you don't today we bake that in this project doesn't happen a new project comes forward and they're allowed to build whatever we put in here so our intent was to remove all of the existing sign language replace it with a sign package that comes back to you to be able to then negotiate and say I don't like that you can't do it I'm okay with this one and we work through it at that time when we're ready to have those conversations uh in terms of why there's a maximum amount the City attorney felt it absolutely necessary to tie it to something and the most logical approach was there's two exhibits in the package that show the maximum amount of signage that is not what we are allowed we are not permitted to go to that what we're saying is ultimately it's up to this body to determine how much we can but we can't ask for any more than that it doesn't mean you have to approve it the language makes that very clear and the City attorney agrees with that that that is the maximum that we're allowed to ask for so the thinking was also go ahead Jeff sorry no go ahead I think the the question was about the vehicle that could be used to allow the Planning Commission to have further authority to review since we know that a specific plan isn't explicitly Allowed by ordinance we needed a different vehicle the thought was we couldn't ask for um anything be without having a some type of legislative guideline for the Planning Commission otherwise we'd be assuming more Authority than we have so we're asking the reason why we had to ask for this language was to we had to have something for the Planning Commission to compare itself to some side some sort of limitation of our legislative Authority explicitly granted to us by the city council and so this was the best language that we were able to get to after some some discussion about how to get there um I share your concern about type um and so maybe we need to be it does say visual impacts lights and sound um but if we want to include something that says the type of sign I'd be open to that as well um I do think that for those uh people who may be listening to this meeting who might have interests in Billboards and other signs I I think this is a very interesting method of um of getting to this uh conclusion but I think it's really important when we're talking about uh investment of this scale in our city that we take a special effort to find ways to have these more complex conversations so that we end up with a good product and at the end of the day if we were to approve this even with this existing language there's no signs unless it comes back to us unless the council makes a decision which they have the right to do even with this language they may be okay with this I'm not I'll tell you that right now what I see right now on signage I couldn't vote for so and I think that's probably shared by most of us at this point but I am willing to give the applicant the opportunity to come back and come up with something that will be publicly noticed so we're giving all of of our residents the opportunity to come back and engage with us about what's appropriate because I I hear our friend from Dell City sharing that he might be able to see the signs from his yard I'm sir I live in Oklahoma City very very close to downtown Oklahoma City I can see the Devon Tower very clearly from my front porch so I'd be staring at um all of this every day so I I take that very seriously so I I think given the the scale the opportunity for investment we had to come up with the creative vehicle for us to be able to do this without it at least coming back to us as is there's not going to be any signs on this building well back to my point about it being a lot to process um around the Horseshoe and in the moment I mean one of the things that occurs to me is that I don't see anything in here that would suggest that there might be phases to the signage approval um you know when they come in for the first Tower you know or the the first building are is that our one shot to address all the signage even though the others are not built and the or you know ready to be built or so on you I think I think there should be perhaps this a package for the site that accommodates the concept that the tower may not be quite as big as they hope it will be you know so if it turns out to be for hotels or for you know MH um um for smaller scale although I hesitate to use the term smaller scale buildings certainly not the you know full giant Tower I I think we're going to have to do it in phases and I don't see anything in here that suggests that not necessarily would we be required to do that do we need language to extend that Authority I I can't see why we wouldn't be able to do that with this language you don't think so well I I just don't think it's explicit enough but if they don't need phases then there's no need for us to require them they're going to need phases we yeah that could be I mean if the construction is going to be phased then I think the approvals should be phased I mean it it may be that they that they will want to get their package in place for the lower levels for the first three stories or four stories or whatever the street skate so maybe we maybe we add a sentence that says something to the effect of uh this would we would be given the authority to bring back this um approval of signs in phases as needed who's going to decide if it's needed ask them well I mean but again to to that to that point they may not need phases they may not I mean you it it's I it seems likely in very high possible but it's not a necessity so how do we legislate around both in both possibilities to say that if the constructions face so will the approvals be I mean approval per vertical structure thoughts I'll quickly add we're not allowed to get a signed permit without this plan being approved so even if we came in with one master plan came back changed something at building permit stage after you had approved it they'll deny it because it's not in conformance so it effectively forces the need for phases as we make changes to the signage to continually come back otherwise we can't get Hermits because they can't put up anything we haven't approved so you are contemplating that there will be a phase approval for the signage if it changes past the original Master signage submit so then again we're left with when we hear the first one we're approving them all yeah and there's still a chance for giant Billboards on a 2,000 foot bit only if we approve it um can I just lay in on the so we normally on the projects of this scale we design the signs for the whole entire project and create a master sign program that is what would be coming back to you guys that would define maybe it's a percentage on a building so if the building went from 1,00 feet to say a th000 feet it the the document would address how to address you know because you're not going to have a thousand foot sign if your building is 900 feet tall so so but we like to um address everything as once so that it's comprehensive and you know all designed together and that's what you guys would be reviewing and approving and there's ways to to include in the the document you know processes for like I said if the building doesn't get built what you know what's obviously you're not going to just go build a thousand foot Tower uh and put a sign on it so I think there's a way to address concerns about phasing Andor Heights or what actually ultimately gets built as part of a singular document that we use as a guide um through the the you know the the course of the project from start to finish and uh that way they all work together instead of um Peace mealing and wondering what's coming next so that's just how we've approached this in other you know similar projects commission Meek yeah I U I understand this is a deferral on the sign portion and I like the tees number one two and four I don't like te number three I believe te Number Two Carries our future deferral on the on the sign package uh I believe that we need to add the word type to where it would say developers shall be required to submit an overall sign type and video board package and that picks us up for later approval uh I don't know why number three should be in there giving giving the maximum amount uh doesn't that doesn't feel like part of a future approval to me I think it's part of the effort to provide parameters with which we have to confine our legislative Authority so um you know I I think that's probably a them maximum flexibility um as we've seen these processes go I think the way it it usually happens is there's some sort of Engagement with the community with City officials prior to um bringing something like this back to the Planning Commission for approval so I should hope that they're they're going to come back to us with something they think that can pass um and so because this this is proposed I again I I don't think that there's five votes for that even with all nine of us here so um it's not an easy it's not an easy deal perhaps we do add explicit language Commission of powers to your point allowing phasing and requiring that any phasing would require our explicit approval at each phase go ahead commissioner Newman one of the one of the things I my concern is is the magnitude of this decision and the impact on our city and we're sitting here at the Horseshoe word smithing and that kind of concerns me a little bit that uh this is just a last minute thing that we're trying to put together and that we're we're getting down to specific words and that we may miss a word that we regret later um I just kind of feel like this is almost one of those things uh even not allowing the um off- premise uh advertising which I like was a significant change that I just found out right before we started the process today and I just kind of feel like um this process is being hurried well um I I understand that and if it didn't have the blessing of the municipal counselor's office then I wouldn't feel comfortable with it and I I think after having their review to establish our parameters um we're going to send it on the council whose job it is is to decide whether or not they want us to have this Authority but my the other Comfort I have is we are not approving this any signage we're not what we're doing today is approving the height of this building we're not approving signage so at the very worst case scenario even if this language is not sufficient we didn't approve any signage but we're approving the language or agreeing upon the language that we're going to use to judge signage later yes and um I think I think we've had this debate and I'll I'll pick on Commissioners leforge and Powers because we've and private because we've been on for a while together um I I think that there was a time in which we looked at specific plans with a mind for trying to find the most objective way to uh approve them I think where we've come is that when we have explicitly stated areas where we want to review action we're saying no it will be subjective and we are going to come back and and give our the full weight of our opinion and Authority behind those specific areas we want to address so so there have been some specific plans where we've gone back and said we want to review the traffic flow and we reserve the right to change it even when you bring it back to us as a completed product and I I don't see how this is any different um than that I think it's just its magnitude the bigness of this Tower at 2,000 ft and proposing some on but again this this voting today does not approve any signage no signs yeah all right well yeah I wouldn't vote for for today with the signs in today it's we're not New York or Las Vegas I don't think but not yet anyways any other any you want to respond to all of that yeah I'll just I'll add that the last statement was entirely correct we're not asking for approval of any of the signage today I think the the architecture team that's here has heard loud and clear the portions of this that are not desirable and it's unlikely you'll see that when it comes back in terms of te3 uh you know it's not that the applicant is requiring this that is the piece that is coming from the city attorney's office to be able to move this forward that gives you all the approval to review it and potentially approve or deny items later so we believe that we've given you more flexibility than any zoning application has ever granted you in terms of specific design regul ations and that's the reason we're seeking your approval today and not wanting to defer we have a thumbs up from the municipal council's office and we think that was the the biggest hurdle which was giving you all specific power to review deny or approve and again we took out any language approving signage so the vote today does not approve signage it approves our ability to review signage later and gives parameters a maximum um of parameters with which we could agree to signage and we agree to add sign type into the last sentence of te2 reserve the right of approval or denial based upon the sign type Dimensions locations visual impacts light and sound that that that's that's not an issue and I believe that the applicant has agreed also uh we'd want to make it part of the record uh 8.3 the te um the existing B billboard shall be removed when development occurs for the lower section it should not be relocated that's correct okay so then I guess if I could say one more thing please I'm not promising it'll be the only other thing I said um perhaps if we inserted the language after the first sentence so it says developer shall be required to submit overall sign a video board package or visible from the public way to be reviewed and approved by Planning Commission with public notice provided in accordance with resoning procedures if we were to insert the sentence such review and approval may be phased if needed as determined by Planning Commission yep yeah we're in agreement with that okay that's a lot it's a lot again I'm comforted by the fact that we aren't approving any signs today uh could I ask for a clarification on uh Mark you had mentioned I think it was on te2 um the language was something to the effect you wanted to add excluding area where video boards or signage exist oh on the architectural yes yes um I think that could cause some confusion because you know as as we see before us you know that those could be considered LED boards I think that's how they're labeled so is there a way we could I I see what you're trying to do um but if we were to use that language as as I wrote it down anyway that could uh beting areas just problematic you can address that I mean we we're just really concerned about at the lower level um to the first 80 feet not on the building you know the taller building so if you wanted to limit it to the it's really that just the requirement of the um 50% open I think in the first 80 feet okay so maybe we're cover because we're talking about ground floor in here so you're not amending that because we have a couple levels of uh commercial and then we have five levels of um parking before the towers start and so um and that's kind of where the signage is and it'll be open but it's just if we have that area calculated twice it's hard to M get to the get to the number so okay we just wanted that excl from the 80 ft down up above those would be I mean because those are all residential units those are all transparent and it does it does say ground floor ground floor facades facing public Street shall have a minimum 50% Etc you could limit it from two up if you want because we won't have any uh the ground floor is all all glass so I just wanted to point that out so what's your recommendation I think I think it might be okay but just because it is limiting it to ground floor so unless you unless you all have a different opinion I trust the Architects too if you all have thoughts to 80 you're good right yeah okay oh wait wait sorry yeah that's no problem yeah un fortunately I can only call on on everyone one time I I know I recognize that we've been asking the the applicant questions and calling them back up so I I do apologize um we're fine with that yeah yeah because if it's only the ground floor and then 80 yeah if it's if it's only the ground floor and then above 80 we're in agreement and we don't need the change okay so maybe it just I guess it depends on the wording so maybe when we get to that point you can read it back and um but I'm saying we no longer need the addition if you're in agreement that it's the ground floor and then everything above 80 feet so it's from two floor two the 80 foot Mark is where these boards are everything above it is transparent and GL okay so right now it says building faad at a height above 80 ft shall have a minimum transparency of 40% per facade that's okay so I I think if change um a height above 80 ft gets us there right so your your point was because they were trying to exclude where the electronic signs are and you're saying no it needs to at least be above well mainly I just wanted to make sure that um that yeah that we didn't have a situation where the the kind of the transparent glass was being counted as as an LED board or you know where um something like that so um yeah the intent is for the bottom signs that you see that basically face reeno um yeah and like I said it's it's a parking structure all those levels are a par deck so you know we want to be able to put some Led screens on that as as a facade material instead of so I think what this is saying is ground floor no problem 80 feet above is 40% open and that's no problem okay yeah so you're good with their revised language of course we're going to go through it all yeah okay Commissioners I think we're at we're at a point where we need to to decide where we are any any thoughts before we and then we're going to be looking for a motion I'll just quickly say uh commissioner Powers you you've got the good grasp on it but I'm prepared to move forward with these limitations on the sign being pushed to a future date and for now at least taking the rest of the action that I think we need to take on the height and the rest of the packet any discussion commissions before this motion or I think we're good okay as long as we're not vote on any of these crazy signs we are not so are you going to make the motion commissioner Forge or commissioner Powers you want to do it i' be happy to okay and you may want to address the maybe maybe what we should do is if you want to have Mark do one reading of his inter interpretation of where we are or do you want to try go first I think commissioner po had the language she wanted added in the right spot okay before we before we go ahead I just want to be sure we kind of divided our discussion between the building and the boards the people who signed up to speak maybe did not make that same distinction in their sign up sheets M was there anyone else who had signed up to speak no ma'am okay okay well then with some reluctance I must admit this is a lot to take on but um I will in this case recommend approval to the city council item number 11 Spud 1613 um removing the language in the current MDS and I mean all of the language in the current MDS that addresses signage with the exception that the billboard has cannot be replaced that's the one sign piece that will stay there's an existing billboard that's going to get removed and can't be put back yeah so 8.3 needs to stay yes yeah I definitely agree with that in its entirety just as it's written okay okay with the exception of 8.3 and replacement of that uh language I guess um you can just do how how am I dealing with this is TE te1 is being reduced to 8 point the removal of all the signed regulations in except for 8.3 and you only need the first sentence of 8.3 since they're removing off premise signage okay okay there we go um and in its place I suppose then we will be inserting we're happy with with um te number two as it states te number two being the architectural with the exception that the third line down vertical articulation to a height above 80t is the change so instead of at least it becomes above that's the change okay have we got that yep um and insertion then of a te number three reading signage shall be Pro City of Oklahoma City Sign ordinance te4 developers shall be required to submit an overall sign and video board package where visible from the public way to be reviewed and approved by Planning Commission with public notice provided in accordance with resoning procedures such review and approval may be phased if needed as determined by Planning Commission the submitt shall include Dimensions location elevations and a visual impact study Planning Commission reserves the right of the approval or denial based on type of signage Dimensions locations visual impacts lights and sound what am I up to number five T number five will read the maximum amount of signage shall be per the dimensions you know I would be happier if that read the maximum amount of signage shall not exceed the dimension shown on pages 13 and 14 that's fine of the exhibits and we dealt with the existing billboard in 83 so I don't have to do that here right yeah but we still need to keep the signage shall be restricted to on premises uses only and then te6 will read the signage shall be restricted then te premises uses only and then the te3 that you read signage shall be per the City of Oklahoma City Sign ordinance except Bel as allowed below that's right I'm sorry okay about as clear as as as we can get it I think today all right but just for the benefit of the public we are not approving any signs today they cannot construct any signs without coming back to the Planning Commission so no one needs to worry that you will suddenly look out your window and see these giant uh signs on a on the largest tower in the United States without our approval because it will be publicly noticed so you'll have the opportunity to come back and share your opinions with us again all right the motion is to from commissioner Powers is to recommend approval of Spud 1613 to city council um subject to the technical evaluation amendments that were read into the record that motion has been seconded by commissioner Meek please cast your votes and the motion passes thank you you good luck thanks Mark we are now in line for item 13 and as we are uh preparing to hear item 13 I'll just do a couple of other quick reminders um if you are wishing to speak to the Planning Commission you're going to lose your window if you have not already signed up to speak because once we've allowed the applicant to speak and then we're going to allow the city of Dell City its officials to speak and then we will hear from citizens after we've begun calling on citizens the applicant will get be given an opportunity to speak to allow uh some experts to speak on their behalf that same opportunity will be given to the city of Dell City and their officials to bring experts and other uh other opinions from those elected officials then we will hear from citizens um at that time so I think we are ready to hear from the applicant oh yeah call it out I'm sorry uh this is uh case SP 588 application to for a special permit to operate use unit 82508 forc attention or correction facilities in the I3 heavy industrial and A2 overlay Environ Zone at 1901 East Grand Boulevard good afternoon David box 522 call Core drive here on behalf of the applicant uh I'm going to briefly go through what you're going to hear from our side we have uh a host of different people here that have uh come in to be able to hopefully answer any questions you might have about this proposal H is here they are the lead architect on the project they are a global designed architecture engineering and planning firm with extensive experience designing detention facilities cc is the local civil engineer and from Oklahoma County we have Stacy Trumbo who is the County engineer and we have Eric Brant who is the county planner you're going to hear from Mr Kurt parie who is with h he's going to discuss the analysis that was undertaken as to why ultimately this site was chosen why this site was chosen and was rated as the highest rated site of all the sites that were looked at based upon 17 objective criteria that were a part of this process you'll then hear from Jeff Bradley who's with also with h who will discuss why a low-rise design is absolutely necessary for our modern jail and why downtown cannot make that possible finally will'll hear hear from Lindsay flesher who's with C who will walk through the analysis of all the various infrastructure pieces that will be needed to make this happen and why we are confident after talking to all of the appropriate parties that all of the necessary infrastructure is in place so with that I'm going to turn it over to Mr Kurt Pare with h okay thank you all right uh thank you for hearing us today uh my name is Kurt party with h um during as we've worked with the county for the past since last summer we've looked at a lot of different properties for them uh we looked at over 20 different sites and the uh all the items that we looked at to determine what the best properties were for the county uh include the following uh having the lowest land purchase possible that helps of course with the project cost overall uh saves the county money um not having a a project that needs to use eminent domain to use the site uh that was very high on the list having major utilities available at the property um that reduces of course utility costs and having to add to the project cost as we get started um no street closures or Street changes required uh the you know having great access to the site is very important and and wouldn't have an impact on the development of adjacent properties um a you know having one land transaction for the county uh makes it easier for a project like this as the project needs to move forward as quickly as possible due to the funding available for the project having the site that is relatively flat um we are looking at a one-story jail facility for this project so having that fairly flat property uh lowers site preparation and development costs um we need about 45 acres of land for this project for the facility uh for it to sit on the on the project site and so you know that was a big part of what helped us look at different properties um the site uh provides space for expansion uh it's really important as you develop a new uh detention Center and Behavioral Care Center for Oklahoma County that there is availability for future uh growth should that happen your community continues to grow this facility will be there a long time and so having proper planning is is really important for that the uh single story facility uh means that there will be no inmate elevators in this in this building uh inmate elevators have been a huge ISS issue uh for the county uh that has an impact on the number of staff that they've been able to hire and to retain so we're trying to help help the county maintain that um the property needs to meet the statutory requirement of um being a certain distance from schools uh that distance is 12200 feet and and uh so having a property that meets that requirement is important um simpler construction means means shorter and lower cost uh project cost for the for the project uh you know the one-story facility uh being a requirement really helps this project be within the dollars that are available having limited flood zone areas to deal with uh you know as you as you begin developing a 45 acre property it's important that the land is not in in flood zone and will not have drainage issues as the project begins to be developed fairly close to downtown you know since the uh the inmates that are in this facility will be going to court uh having reduced Transportation time uh really reduces cost operational cost for the county uh Detention officers will be on on the streets less uh and and less time transporting to the courthouse uh easy vehicular access to the site uh provides safety for law enforcement uh so as the City of Oklahoma and other entities bring detain a to the property having very easy access to the property is important for their safety having solid good soils reduces Foundation cost uh we've been looking for properties that have good soils that will not require expensive foundations for the building and finally uh having uh space for the behavioral care center which is a big part of this project uh and being able able to put that on the same site connected to the building that will be a diversion facility to help us reduce the overall size of the facility is important so that's been a big part of of the equation so those are the those are the the the items that we've used to help us determine you know what is the best property for use as for the new facility um over to the left here we have uh a site diagram that begins to show the layout of this project so we've been in the schematic design phase uh so we've been uh developing the property uh layout and and how things would develop uh over here on the on the east side of the property uh is where the the public would enter off of Grand Avenue uh the public facing uh side of the facility uh where the public Lobby is the public entrance to the parking lot the public parking there would be secured uh staff parking on that side of the facility as well uh then we have next to that uh we have the staff areas uh they will have secured staff parking at the site uh in that kind of aqua color uh that is Staff training staff briefing area uh detention officer staff will get their equipment there during uh when when they come on shift uh and uh and that is that is where they will be the yellow area is is a two-story portion of the facility that will also have two courtrooms so uh we one one I one uh thing we're trying to develop here our criminal courtrooms at this site to help us reduce Transportation costs and keep as many people here as possible that don't need to go downtown to court uh and then the lower orer orange piece there is a uh is an area for programs for inmates again providing as many inmate programs as we can so that when they are released back to the public uh they will have um more U information help them be able to uh blend back into into life and not recidiviz and come back into the facility behind that we have the housing uh so we have uh we have dormatory housing minimum security medium security maximum security housing a lot of different types of of inmate housing at this facility we also have Behavioral Health housing within the jail uh that is separated separate from the behavioral care center which is this uh area down here uh we have 80 beds uh of the behavioral care center uh which will be used as a diversion facility so when law enforcement brings people to this vehicle sally port secured vehicle sally port uh if they are given they will be given an assessment a medical and mental health assessment at that point it will be determined if they can actually be diverted away from this jail and instead housed in the behavioral care center so that's what this facility is down here that will be a fully licensed facility uh and and will be paid for with Medicare funds so it helps the county reduce operational costs in the building um the site uh we have site expansion um sorry let me back up just a second we also have Behavioral Care housing within the facility so these are for uh incarcerated inmates that do have also have mental health uh issues that need to be treated so uh they are adjacent to Medical Care uh clinical space uh and and that is inside the facility um rounding at the the rest of the design includes of course some food service for for Food Service laundry uh and also um Warehouse facilities for the for the facility uh and um expansion will be up here on the on the North side uh we have a separate entrance for the behavioral care center which will come off of 22nd Avenue or 22nd Street um and and so uh the behavioral care center will have its own front door separate from uh the the front door of the jail the uh facility is primarily a one-story facility for the housing that means a main level with a mezzanine level so it's really comparable to a two-story building for the jail housing portion of the building and then the front area which also is the public Lobby uh the courtroom areas uh the uh officer training areas uh the inmate program spaces are also twostory spaces so so the the the majority of the project is is two story the behavioral care center is one level I think that's really a quick overview of the design elements that we're looking at for the project any questions oh yeah I think there's plenty of questions but let have we go um I guess we had a couple more okay I'm sorry did you have questions on the design no not specifically for him okay I kind of do the I I had had asked this question earlier uh of your representative and just wanted to visit with you a little bit it it seems to me like uh the predominant um model for these kinds of facilities now is to bring some services to them here uh at least to help with transitioning sort of a um a rather than having to release people and take them where they would need to go or send them to where they need to go to do the things that they need to do to reintegrate just the everyday things like get a driver's license and you know that kind of stuff um and and I was wondering if there is room on the site to provide for that kind of transitioning um facilitation uh in the future if not as part of this particular design uh yeah that that gets into some of the detail of the layouts and we actually do have uh community service spaces within the building as well as diversion uh Services space in the building so the intent is that as someone is brought into the building uh they will be classified if they're booked into the facility they will be classified you know the level of inmate uh either general population or uh Behavioral Health population at that time they'll also be assigned to uh case workers and people that will uh start to work with them uh so that they can connect them to Community Services outside of the facility so that when it comes time for release uh they will uh meet with those staff and they will the staff will talk with them um about um you know connect them with Healthcare uh do they need prescription drugs um do they need housing uh and you know they try to resolve all those issues with them before they uh take them to the release area uh where they will uh sign paperwork and then uh eventually the the county will uh the plans the design plans show are going to uh put them into a van and then take them back to the downtown area so that's the release process but uh while they're there there are uh Provisions for people uh Community Services folks um diversion folks to work with them uh to uh connect them to Community Services thank you sure um one of the the points that I think has been previously made at least when I've heard about this conversation about this site in comparison to others is that there is that it's uh one story and that it's in a a place where there is more land so could you speak to the availability and opportunity for those who are incarcerated to then be able to go have the option to go outside or to see outside or how will that be incorporated into this um design and then also natural light um the existing jail is is a terrible place and so how can you share with us um the architectural ways in which you know we we will be treating the inmates incarcerated here in a more humane way with access to outside and natural light sure this building is a tremendous change from what you currently have uh we are we are setting up the facilties so that each um each housing unit which will house approximately 56 people uh has its own Recreation yard that Recreation yard will have a lot of Windows which will then uh spill natural light into the day area the day space for inmates that is adjacent to their cells so when an when an inmate is taken into the housing unit uh they will be primarily staying in that unit except for uh if they're going to a program or if they're going to be taken to court uh so uh while they're in that housing unit they have access to natural light through the housing uh through the recreation yard there will be just a lot of glass from that wreck yard into the housing unit uh they also will have access to a multi-purpose room for program space directly on their housing unit uh they will have uh video visitation spaces in their housing units so they do not to be need to be taken to the front of the facility for visitation unless there's maybe an attorney visit or something special that they need to have uh medications will be brought to each housing unit uh they don't no longer will have to go up elevators to the 13th floor for medical care uh a lot of that will be brought down to them so you know most of the functions oh also Food Service you know there'll be food will be brought to the housing unit uh so they will they will sit and they will eat in their day room uh the building is also being being designed as a direct supervision housing format uh that's a much newer way than the way your current facility is designed and laid out uh in this instance with with direct supervision uh you will have an officer uh during the daytime in the housing unit with the the 56 inmates that are in that housing unit it provides a much calmer area uh an area where that officer can understand and hear conversations going on in the jail housing unit so that they can tell if something's going to happen they can then diffuse the situation uh this has been done for many years now in other areas uh and so it's it's it's a very positive way to manage inmates and provides better outcomes I I should also say we have the behavioral health areas as well those are those magenta spaces um what we're also doing in this facility is providing uh upgraded Behavioral Health Care uh housing units that are going to have even more natural light opportunities for the inmates uh when you if you are a mental health individual uh patient uh and you on medications it's very important they have access to Natural Light uh to be able to see day daylight the sky and so being able to give them that opportunity will help them uh heal so that when they released uh they have a better chance of of staying out of out of out of jail other questions um you mentioned video visitation um is that going to be outsourced is that going to be privatized um video visitation equipment is typically brought in by a third party uh the county currently does that uh they uh will contract with a an equipment provider that will bring in the the VIS the visitation equipment and install it um and uh you know that includes actually V video visitation these days is done with iPads so uh there will be a certain number of iPads in each of the housing units and uh those uh will sit in a certain area uh when an inmate uh wants to visit they will be a uh a separate room if they want a private visitation or they can sit out in the day room with their iPad and visit uh they have um controls on what that iPad can see so you know the person looking back at them can't see across the room was amazing how how that has changed the environment in in jails the reason I asked in the past it's been kind of an issue with respect to just the cost of video visitation um you know inmate communication with family and friends and uh video visitation initially was you know really heralded as a a big plus because people don't have to travel and and all that kind of stuff but but when it's privatized it can get very expensive if you're talking about doing basically Zoom calls on an iPad that's one thing but um I'm I was just curious sure any other questions Commissioners go ahead David all right so next we're going to hear from Mr uh Jeff Bradley who's going to talk about why a lowrise design is absolutely necessary for our next jail facility hi I'm Jeff Bradley I'm the national director for H's Civic and Justice program and we're honored to be here today and and talk to you about this and answer any questions uh we're really excited about uh what we've been working on and what we developed here with the people from the county and the people at the facility and trying to move things forward uh our overall goal is to make this dramatically more Humane and environment we've been kind of leading that charge around the nation and transitioning on how the systems how everything just operates and the behavioral care center Kurt talked about I'll talk a little bit more about that in a few moments but the the County's goal and the overall goal right now is to really get out of the business of warehousing people uh they they've already started that process by changing who they hold and who they don't hold and such and they've had a big Improvement on that and brought their numbers way down um the uh getting out the business of warehousing people their goal really is to rehabilitate people more and you'll be able to see by what kurts talked about here these are the unique things that are being uh and Trend leading across the country that we're working into the into the D overall design of this facility one of the things that's important about this in order to be able to success successfully execute uh a more humanitarian environment and rehabilitative environment is keeping it one story you mentioned the natural light that's absolutely critical instead of being in a dungeon type environment with the gray walls and steel and we actually put a lot of color in the interior as well but the natural light's really important you can't see it in here but we actually have Incorporated light wells in these long hallways so when people are just there moving around or working it's it's important for the staff too and that's a big problem with Oklahoma county is maintain obtaining and maintaining staff they're even willing to work there uh so improving that environment is important for them uh there's also a courtyard in the middle here to give a sense of space for people uh Kurt talked about the um uh the light Wells not just light Wells but the light coming in from the wreck yards you get more natural light from a single story facility brought into the housing units a tremendous amount of more with that since this facility is going to focus a lot on the mental health issues of people and it's important to incorporate the best practices uh H is a large firm we have a healthcare division as well but we've been leading this charge now around the nation for about 10 years and changing things and and doing the single story is really important but one of the things that uh the county wants to do here that I think is wonderful is a diversion facility and that's the BCC and the behavioral care center that that we've Incorporated in this and those are people who come in right now your county is and the counties around the nation are the largest mental health providers in the nation so how can we improve that and one is diversion right now get them out of being incarcerated the BCC they actually sign a contract that'll range from uh three days to up to 30 days and it's a voluntary contract they don't have to but they can go over into that housing and get the treatment they need a lot of these people are in crisis when they come in but they don't belong in jail so that's the important part is once we get them into the processing area they determine that and they can go over to the BCC if they're a danger not to themselves but to others and they have other uh heavier larger charges they do get incarcerated and they go inside but they go into a a um mental health type housing area that we have that's specialized where they'll get even more treatment over there uh that there's 492 beds you're going to have over 500 beds almost 600 beds that focus on improving the mental health of the people who come in here are incarcerated to therefore improve their life when they get out I bring that up because what's important about it is keeping it at one story for the natural light it's also be able to get services to them in a much quicker more prompt way than people getting stuck in elevators it allows the nurses to get to them if there's a a medical issue allows a prompt response uh being single story and not having to get into the uh any the elevators I mentioned the natural light it's also delivery of the services the medical ones but uh other services well from food and such the other thing you don't want to do is put people who have real challenging issues into elevators if you don't have to and that's what this design allows to not happen it's it's not it's for them but it's also for the staff as well a lot of people may not be aware but 62% of the staff that work in the jail are female and that's that's really a significant factor because uh right now the way the jail numbers have transition with the improvements they made on who they hold and who they don't hold there right now you 87% % of the people and I've been following these numbers for the last 6 months 87% of the people who are incarcerated in this jail are medium and maximum security it's only 133% low risk so you have this 62% of the females having to work and manage and handle and be exposed to these people and in elevators and such and it's not a good safety mix it just isn't um I mentioned the quicker response times uh best practices for safety and sec security especially for the uh for this female staff would be ideal to keep these detainees out of elevators and them out of there as well the um I mentioned that the percentage is of the 87% if it's one story and this site's available we can start today and that's important for several different reasons one is the downtown site if they were to try and do something downtown it's going to take you a couple years to get the land the roads the utilities and all that done you're now delaying that project by at least 2 years and the people who are incarcerated now and will be incarcerated and and held over there for the next two years you're you're extending the life of the people who will be exposed in there another two years of that instead of getting them to a much nicer uh more Humane type facility um and and that's a minimum um if if the county cannot start the BCC be they're using arpa funds to pay for that Kurt talked about medic care because we're taking it away and separating from the building they'll be able to submit Medicare cost for taking care of these people which helps take care of the ongoing cost but right now uh the Cy's applied for and they're intending to use arpa funds to pay for the BCC the the facility according to ARP arpa rules and regulations the design has to be completed by December of this year December 31st and has to be constructed in the next two years after that the end of uh December 31st of 20 26 if they were to go downtown that doesn't happen that $50 million goes away so that's another reason why that the one story uh besides being best practices for mental health it it's really and improving the all environment the humanitarian issues for this facility uh it's also very costly and expensive to go someplace other than this there's other costs that are tied to I W mention those now I don't know that they're relevant but any that's what I want to talk about why one story is so important uh for the Improvement in the lives and behavior of the people that come out of this facility any questions questions Commissioners okay okay outside of me the the last speaker will be uh Miss Lindsay flesher to talk about the various infrastructure pieces necessary to make this facility hi Lindsay fleser with C we have been having correspondence with both the utility department at the City and surrounding private utility um as far as water is concerned there is a water line along 15th Street and water south of the site therefore we plan to Loop the water line through the site to serve the site um on sanitary sewer there is a large diameter uh sewer line that runs through the site along the creek we are working right now with the city to analyze that capacity uh to tie into that um the treat the Water Treatment Center or treatment plant that is down Downstream of that line does have the capacity for this development we have talked to OG uh about electrical service and uh they do have the facilities uh to provide um service in this location as well as om um providing gas in this location we've been told that there there's no concerns with that okay Jared would you display the zoning map so I want to focus on what it is we're here to do today because what it is not here on is a zoning case this site is already zoned and in fact it's zoned I3 I3 represents the single most intense zoning District that we as a city have I3 and I'm going to read this definition that comes out of the code is defined as a district intended to provide locations for those uses that may generate relatively high levels of noise vibration smoke dust odor or light now we don't anticipate those issues with this facility the point is the city has created a zoning District to locate uses that are otherwise difficult to place anywhere else within the city it's also significant to look at the area around this site almost all of it is zoned I2 with one exception to the West there's a piece touching it that is zoned I3 so when we think of cases like this and special permit applications it's a it's a test of compatibility if you look at the available uses that the property owner could make use of today and Miss Turner handed this out this is come this comes from the Oklahoma City Zoning table uh specifically if you look at the far right list you'll see I3 again in the vein of I3 being the most intensive zoning District we have in the city I would submit to you that what is proposed to this application is perhaps the least intensive use that the property owner could make of this property next we look at the comence of plan this site maintains the heavy industrial layer designation this is defined as a layer to accomodate industrial uses that are difficult to integrate with less intensive uses so once again we now have I3 and heavy industrial both of which are telling us that this is the place where we need to put uses that are otherwi wi difficult to locate anywhere else within the city the subject site right now is vacant jar could you go to the aerial that shows there we go currently the subject site is vacant it maintains uh some oil and gas operations on site but more importantly the site today is one of the biggest spots for Crime that we have in this area bringing a facility like this will bring a stabilization to the area a police presence to the area that will do nothing but improve the area and raise the property values I'm going to go through a handful of things that I think you're going to hear one of which is putting this next to Mr chairman if I could ask him to sit down and not get on mebody please be respectful thank you excuse me sir please be respectful let's remember our Oklahoma standard of being respectful please continue David so we think that you're going to hear why this site is a problem because of proximity to residential if you look at the map before you it would be worth noting that there there is no residential on that map the residential that exists is east of Bryant and why that's important if you can go back to the aerial map or excuse me the zoning map Jared sorry what you'll see is east of Bryant is where residential exists those folks are buffered by I2 Industrial Development between our proposed site and the residential but let's look at the current site and compare that to the proposed site so here's the current downtown Detention Facility you have the residences at the The Residence at West Village that is 264 ft from from the current jail you have the Muse creative living which is a brand new facility 438 ft you have the Haven 395 ft the Civic Center Condominiums 452 ft you have I don't know how to pronounce it the a apartments in the sycamore square the point being if you look at the high-end residential that is in close proximity to the current jail it is far closer than the residential that is within proximity to the proposed jail next we think you're going to hear something about school in proximity to Crooked Oak so the proposed site from Crooked Oak I think believe it's their High School is 2750 ft as the crow flies you can see it here in the upper left hand corner and here of course is our proposed site the current Detention Facility is only 1,396 ft from John Rex Elementary current facility closer to a school then the proposed facility would be located I think you're going to hear comments about the proximity to some proposed sports facilities that are proposed to be west of our site it's worth noting that currently immediately west of our site is going through the zoning process to be I2 the city owns that the county is going to work with Crooked Oak schools to relocate the current sports facilities to a location north and immediately east of the current high school so they will be located in an area right across the street from where the high school is right now in terms of crime we we believe you're going to hear that this will somehow increase crime in the area uh we would disagree we actually think that this is going to clean up the area if you look at the Oklahoma City Police Map this is one of the reddest spots within our city meaning it has one of the highest crime rates in the City undoubtedly putting a Detention Facility is going to clean that up if the concern is crime perhaps committed by people within the facility the site will be surrounded by a 12T chain link fence with three barb wire on top so we believe that the site is more than adequately um screened and will be safe so finally if you look at your staff report the staff does a good job of laying out what the ordinance say says your task is and ultimately City council's task is in a special permit application there are six standards by which you are to judge all special permit applications not just this so I'm going to go by them one by one number one is the proposed you shall conform to the policies adopted in the comprehensive plan again this site maintains the heavy industrial designation and we would submit to you that based upon the use we provide or we are proposing it absolutely meets the policies adopted in the comprehensive plan two the proposed use shall not adversely affect the use of neighboring properties neighboring properties are almost all industrial I2 with the exception of the one that's I3 this use will absolutely be compatible with other industrial uses and again will be less intensive than you would otherwise expect to see in an I3 District three the traffic generated will not be in conflict with the traffic in the neighborhood these uses generate very low traffic compared to what you might expect in a typical industrial use that being Trucking facilities and distribution facilities with 18 wheelers going in and out almost constantly think of an Amazon facility the usage generated here will absolutely be in Harmony and not in conflict with the uses that surround it four adequate public utility infrastructure is available to serve the proposed use as you heard from Lindsay they have done all the necessary steps to confirm water sewer OG and all of the other infrastructure necessary to run a facility such as this five the site shall front or have direct access to a street having adequate rideway and improvements to support the traffic generated we have Frontage on two separate Streets Southeast 22nd as well as East Grand Boulevard we will have access points on both the traffic generated from this will absolutely be able to be maintained and handled from those two streets and finally is six that tells us that the city council May impose specific conditions on the special permit this is a bit of a catchall that allows the city council or perhaps the Planning Commission giving suggestions to the council to impose certain requirements within a special permit to ensure compatibility staff in their staff report has a technical evaluation there are two of them one says that the operations shall conform to the conditions of the program description we agree to that we believe we have submitted one of the more detailed program descriptions that you've likely seen most of the program descriptions you see are really vague one or two pages here we detail operations Square footages all of the things that we believe would be uh questions asked of us and we are happy to commit to what is included in that program description and finally te2 granting of this special permit does not allow a transitional living facility as divined by defined by state law we agreed to that as well we're happy to listen to any other suggested conditions but we agree to those two technical evaluations which we believe impose the necessary conditions to ensure not only safe operation of the facility but also a compatible user on this site with that I'm happy to answer any questions and we would strongly urge you to support this application David the one of the comments I'm anticipating we're going to hear from the city of Dell City is that um when people are released from this facility um they are not in a close proximity to a bus route they're not in a close proximity to services that may immediately be helpful and they're not and they may um wander away from this facility and go to neighborhoods that while not immediately adjacent as you described are in a reasonable walking distance sure what mitigation will be done to address that issue so first let me let me go back to this and then I'll get to the specific question to my knowledge the people that live at the West Village and the Civic C or the the Civic Condominiums and the Haven have not reported incidents like that and these residential units are in much closer proximity to what than what we propose here now to answer your specific question we have a call out in our site plan that's on your screen as well we have an area designated for shuttle bus pickup of these individuals it's important to note however that these individuals are people that have been fre freed from the facility they are free to go where they want because they are no longer in Doc custody it's no different than when I walk out a city Hall I'm free to go do whatever I want to do these people that are being released from the jail are no different they're free we cannot force them on to a shuttle we cannot force them to go anywhere they're free of docc custody therefore we can offer the services and we can offer the shuttles and offer to take them where they want but ultimately if they don't want to go we cannot force a free person onto that bus so with the transportation that is provided how will you determine where those people go so let's say I am somebody who wants to take advantage of this opportunity how is that determined which facility I'll be taken to well it depends on the person depends on the needs of the person and depends on the different providers that are available to that person um it would be a case-by case basis but the point is we will have the ability to offer the means to get them to the services if they so desire questions go ahead Comm I thought I understood when I asked one question earlier about providing services on site that that people were not actually going to be released from this location that they were going to be taken downtown where they would be released did I misunderstand that no they'll be released from this location but they will be provided the opportunity to be taken to services that may exist downtown but there's also a lot less opportunities than they have now at the downtown I'm sorry a lot less opportunities for transportation and housing than they have now downtown no I think it's the exact same amount of opportunities it's I'm sorry I disagree and I disagree with that well I'm happy to hear why you disagree we're not closing service providers we got bus stops we got trolley stops we got bike Lanes we got you know none of that is in D City D City doesn't have bike Lanes so this is not in Dell City what we're providing is the it's 700 ft from Dell City it's Dell City okay it's D City so again we're providing the necessary transportation to get to the services I I I think you're providing an option but that's just a stop gap for what we actually have now which they walk out now they got city buses they got you know we got Jesus house you got homeless Alliance you got I mean it's everybody that wants to talk it'll get a chance after this um but I just don't see that same opportunity coming out of this jail and without that I I don't I just have a have issues with it no I understand your concerns we've been working with both cjack and the Commissioners about uh encouraging because inside here in this area in the release area we have all the special services people there so they can talk to these people before they walk out and and helping them get set up with their meds places to stay all all those other things will be addressed before they are released so it's encouraging them to to engage in the in the transportation that they'll have here uh CJ's work and Tim tardibono has been working on that the Commissioners been working on that to support the goal is is to take as many people downtown to a pre-released predetermined location or multiple locations and have van drops as they do that uh also one of the things that we talked about too is not uh we have extra large holding area that we've designed into this so people are not released like after 700 p.m.
To 7:00 a.m. so they're not out to walk in around at night time trying to figure out where to go they're actually we're holding them until early morning hours and then they be taken at that point to another location there's also discussions that we're having uh and uh with both the da and and the head judge about talking about it it's really up to the courts on how they determine when somebody's released and out of custody they can predetermine and say it doesn't have to be here it could say once they're released when they're incarcerated they're incarcerated according what that judge says and the judges if they're willing to work with us on that and which I have no reason to believe why I think they wouldn't to give the better services to the people and and engage in that that really you could actually have it to where nobody actually is released from this location at all but to a predetermined location downtown and or locations of where the services are provided uh you in Oklahoma City and Oklahoma County you actually have a lot more social programs than a lot of other community large communities do around the country you've done a pretty good job with that and those services are there what's important about your BCC and the services inside this jail and the more attention that people are going to be getting than they normally get in an incarcerated fac facility they're being prepared for release and more successful the the facility in Nashville that we did the BCC there when they released them they used to have a reation recidivism rate of close to 80% especially the people with mental health issues and frequent flyers they've got it down to 20% now over the past two years since their facility's been open which is substantial and so uh work working with the system and talking to them about hey make make it to where that's not a release point it's it's a transfer point to another location where formally that's where they're no longer in custody so there there's a lot of things that are in play here that we're doing to work with that to help you and help the community and we're open to other suggestions as well but the the Commissioner's Court and cjack are already working on that too to help you out with the concerns uh Mr pre they prate they uh they understand what the concerns are and Mr Trumbo uh reminded me that c Jack and Embark are actually in discussions to put a bus stop uh right out in front of the facility any other questions okay for David because let's go ahead and hear from the city of of Dell City I know they have a number of Representatives who are here I will remind everyone that if you are to please I I understand that you may be upset by or offended by some of the things that are stated um in this presentation I'm going to ask the people from Del the the city officials from Dell City please go ahead and come to the microphone as I'm speaking um the city officials who um so I I understand again that we're having a very challenging conversation but I'd again implore you to remember our own respect and dignity for this process and for each other so I'm going to ask if you are are very upset or offended and feel like you need to voice that please go outside and have that conversation otherwise you will have an opportunity to be heard by this commission so remember to fill out that form at the conclusion of this presentation from the city of Dell City we will no longer be taking any additional forms so please refrain from your reactions go outside if you have any additional conversations and we're going to hear from the city of D city thank you my name is Floyd e and I'm the mayor of Dale City and out of respect for the commission's time we have delegated four speakers to speak to speak for us sorry okay um and i' I'd like to introduce just a couple of the people that are here and then I'll I'll start our delegation speaking thank you for this time by the way uh Scott Tatum standing right here is our W for councilman and he's going to open the discussion for the city of Del City after him we have Kelly Wilbur where's Kelly raise your hands oh there you are Kelly Wilburn is uh the assistant to the city manager of Dell City we are gonna have judge where's judge bla bla nice yes he's here to keep us out of trouble so he'll speak if necessary and finally we have a citizen Walter Jax Walter there you are and he's going to speak for us too uh but I did not originally intend to speak because out of time and all that but I looked at all these diagrams and I just can't keep my mouth shut all of their drawings ended at Bryant the world does not end at Bryant across the street from Bryant we have over a thousand Homes single family dwelling that are within a mile of this jail location they in their world at Bryant the developers that's where our world begins and we're looking out for the citizens that live in that area that's what we're trying to do Scott Tatum thank you Mr [Applause] Mayor thank you Mr Mayor and thank you Commissioners for giving us the opportunity to speak today on this very important issue which will affect the future of not only Dell City but Oklahoma City to concerning the special permit application the requested special per permit is only for the proposed Oklahoma County Detention Center where is the special permit for the behavioral center why not address simultaneously the behavioral center since it is included in the program description part of the reason we are here today according to the County Commissioners is to quickly move on this permit due the due to the potential of losing arpa funds in the amount of $50 million therefore the special permit for the proposed detention center and Behavioral Center should be addressed simultaneously as the current special permit for the Detention Center does not allow for any of these funds to be expended on this project so urgency for losing those funds would no longer be a valid argument to push this permit through allowing additional time for appropriate review decisions made today could impact our communities for many years and generations to come so this decision should not be made in haste the program description provided is in adequate based on the requirements listed on the standards specifically staff recommendation page 11 granting of this special permit does not allow a transitional living living facility as defined by state law while the Detention Center may not qualify as a transitional living facility the proposed Behavioral Center would qualify as a traditional I'm sorry excuse me Transitional Living facility this is another reason why the special permit should be included simultaneously concerning current emergency services respon time when meeting with the Reliant Living Center they indicated emergency response times as 10 to 15 minutes for ambulance services 5 minutes for fire services and 15 to 20 minutes for police services how does the city plan to address these emergency services with this increase in population and use type the staff report did not indicate a recommendation of approval or denial what is their recommendation various elements throughout the report need to be addressed that are either not addressed or inadequately addressed such as the compatibility with the comprehensive plan adjacent uses of the general area viability of nearby neighborhoods Trosper Park the city's larg largest park and the inmate release plan on the staff report page 8 last paragraph continuing into page nine staff has additional concerns about the jael's impact on the general area additionally staff is concerned that the jail could attract Associated uses that would not contribute to the viability of nearby neighborhoods or other land uses the program description does address concerns in the inmate release plan however additional conditions may be needed could the proposed Transportation plan suggest a traditional living facility due to the fact that after 12:00 a.m.
Previously incarcerated individuals are allowed at will to stay in a holding release area until 7:00 a.m. the next day when Transportation continues there are also potential environmental issues since the aquifier is considered highly vulnerable the number of parking spaces appears to be inadequate for a facility of this size State Statute 57-56 3.4 section A States the facility must be 2,00 , 500 ft from any private or public elementary or secondary school secure facility for juveniles or residential neighborhood that houses sex offenders or persons convicted of a capital offense these concerns are just a few issues related to the immediate area and do not address the socioeconomic impact on neighboring Dell City and crook good Oak thank you thank [Applause] you good afternoon Commissioners I'm Kelly willbanks I'm the assistant city manager for the city of Dell City I am also the former uh community development director for the city of Dill City over the planning department so I certainly understand the hard spot that you're in today there's not a single person in this room including myself that doesn't believe that the Oklahoma Detention Center doesn't need to be addressed and that there's serious issues obviously our forefathers that put the place in and made the plans made some mistakes and all I'm asking is that you consider today to take the time necessary so we don't make repeated mistakes for the next Generations to come we're not making a decision today that's going to impact us for the next year two years three years five years we're talking about decades or more of what we're doing so we don't want to act in haste for doing that uh it was mentioned uh by the applicant that and by the planning Commissioners that this is a there is a longterm proper planning is essential and it's absolutely essential in this case some of the five reasons for this was the impact on adjacent properties we have have talked about this so many times with the County Commissioners about how this would be impacting the residential areas just by looking at the graphic that's on the screen now all of those residential homes there are very close like you said Mr Pennington within easy walking distance for them they've talked about a transportation plan and how we would provide that they said it would bring an extra police force to the area because it's a Detention Center those police force are going to be there for other reasons they're not going to be there because there's a police station nearby that's monitoring the neighborhoods they talked about the high crime in the area there's high crime in the area because there's currently not a police department in that area that's monitoring that crime there is businesses and residents that are currently having issues with the unhoused individuals in that area so adding obviously pre previously incarcerated people in that same area is going to add an additional burden to that area it does need a new home it does need a facelift the inmates need the things that they're talking about for mental health but to suggest that this doesn't also indicate a transitional living facility by adding the behavioral care center to this location is also a falsity uh in my opinion we've talked a lot about the social services and things that would be provided uh to the incarcerated people or the previously incarcerated people where does that come from you're telling me that we're supposed to sit here and believe that when you release someone you're going to sit down with a counselor and go through a list of all the services that I could take you to today they don't manage the staff that they have there now and the inmates that they have there's other County jails all across the state that we never hear about that are not facing the issues that we are we do have a management issue for this County jail and that's what makes it so hard for us so to think that we would naively approve something without having these things addressed is just um crazy to me and so you have got a large weight on your shoulders and there's many things even including the LI infrastructure that Lindsay mentioned earlier they said they're working to analyze if the sewer lines have the capacity to take on this facility we should know that before we decide on this permit can the infrastructure handle it or not what is going to be involved the last group got this wrong and I hope we are not included in the next group to get it wrong thank you thank [Applause] you uh bla nice 100 North Broadway Oklahoma City for the city of D City I'm going to be brief I'm not going to repeat what everybody else has U Mr box has always does a fine job making a presentation and the zoning presentation he makes he's exactly right the zoning may fit this but this isn't about zoning it's about special use and one of the things he talks about well we have housing down by um the current gel we have a school down there it came to that on its own valtion these people in Dell City don't have a choice they're already there and this is coming to them um I've been in legal profession for a long time was in law enforcement I've been in jails I've been in the prison this is a beautiful facility they're showing us it's needed it's great this is not about the facility itself it's about the location there's an old Landy Griffith episode it talks about you have a shiny thing for a little boy he'll grab it until he finds there's a fish hook on it well this facility is beautiful but we're not talking about the facility itself everybody agrees it's needed it's the location there's going to be a representative of a lion get up here and talk about uh the Services they provide to uh special needs individuals and it's within this perimeter so um I just you guys have a tough decision today I don't want to belabor it we appreciate I appreciate those of you that reached out to me and taken your time I appreciate the tough decision it's just this is not about the facility itself it's about the location and please please um consider that carefully thank you thank you good afternoon my name is Walter Jax I'm Dell City resident uh I uh you know the issues and I'm going to bring here immediately are going to seem a little bit from left field but uh I will get to the uh the other issues in just a sec I have been a longtime Transportation advocate in Oklahoma City working with the alliance for public transportation uh for years on the board and working with the modern Transit project which some of you will remember being as the driving force to bring the street car back to Oklahoma City as a component of maps 3 under MC cornette uh what I see happening now is uh going to be very problematic for the Regional Transit Authority I'm sure you're all uh familiar with the RTA and that is an attempt to be a world class City with respect to public transportation I have advocated in Dell City the whole time I've lived there uh starting with mayor Brian Lindley 20 25 years ago trying to get him to play with Metro Transit which is what is now in bark and he felt somewhat burned by Metro Transit in a deal and so he decided he's not going to play with them anymore and very similarly uh we've had uh we've had uh some municipalities drop out uh Midwest City and D City have both dropped out of the RTA I'm a strong advocate for a very strong RTA my dear friend Bob keer wrote the legislation that Charlie Joiner got passed to authorize it it's very dear to my heart I believe that everybody in the city ought to be able to get around okay but I feel very strongly that placement of this jail by Oklahoma County on the border of Dell City will create very bad blood and a lot of animosity and I don't think RTA will ever see Midwest City and Dell City come back into the fold as long as that jail is there there it's just going to be too much animosity to overcome now I'd like to talk about a couple of other points uh Kelly said very well if you look on the handout that I gave you on the third slide it's got a number six on the top right corner the map doesn't stop at Bryant Avenue this is a one mile radius around the proposed site on Southeast Grand within that red circle and that one mile radius there are 800 homes in that contiguous area there are over a thousand homes now I believe I I come from a background in public health I'm retired from 24 years in public health to the state of Oklahoma so I I do not malign the mentally ill the incarcerated or the homeless I want to be very clear about that and I can tell you for a fact that not all the people that are in that jail now need to be in there they don't they absolutely don't not all of them but some of them do what I'm talking about is a very bad actors who get out and they are problematic and as already been said when people are released from Doc they're free to go where they want to go and that's the problem that we have now if you flip to uh slide number s and by the way that yellow line on that slide that says six is a South Grand Trail that's one of the big Maps features to get people out and exercising to get families and kids playing along that trail we'll come to that in just a minute the next page says slide number seven again is the one M radius but it shows the schools and the parks that are in the immediate area and again we you know that's just too much of a burden to bear a lot of the properties in Dell cities are rental properties and it's going to be extremely difficult to try to rent out a property that's 700 feet from the jail it's going to be an extreme hardship and Dell City is a has a population of only 22,000 we cannot absorb the economic impact that this will impose upon us we cannot that jail location is in Oklahoma City but the impact is to Dell City residents and citizens on the final slide look down Grand the top left photo I shot this morning now I have personally returned two shopping carts from South Grand to a to a grocery store from which they came those things are worth about $1,000 each this morning there were four more sitting out there there're five in total there now the red one is still sitting out there and you see an encampment this is what's going on right now this minute on South Grand and when we release people that are free to go wherever they please and they have no resources no access to a bus and if you release me from jail I'd say you know what I'm a free man you're not making me get on that van and I'm sure that's going to be the case a lot of the times okay so so please consider all of these items uh when making your decision about whether to approve this property going there it's too much of a hardship for Dell City to bear thank you very much for your time thank you Mr Mayor Mr Mayor before we call on citizens who have signed up to speak do you have any additional uh people from oh he signed up okay we'll call we he can either go now if you'd like him to go now or we can whatever your preference okay well we can we can call on you um then as I begin to call uh citizens to be heard I'd again just like to remind everyone about our rules number one we're going to give everyone five minutes to address the commission when you have 30 seconds remaining our planning director will say you have 30 seconds remaining when your time has ended I will say your time has ended and we please ask that you please step away from the microphone and show your neighbors the respect that they deserve to have their opportunity to then be heard we'd also like to remind you please refrain from any foul language I understand as I stated at the very beginning of this meeting that this are these are very serious issues they're very personal issues and I understand that but our values call for us to hold ourselves to a high standard of expectation because that's who we are so I'm asking us all to please remember that as we are having this discussion so um also please remember to you are addressing the commission you are addressing the commission our members so let's let's be clear about that all right um we'll start with uh councilwoman Claudia Brown thank you um next we'll have Charelle pce and I apologize if I mispronounced your name thank you and I'm assuming that person has signed up right excellent um Pamela Payne Johnson thank you Michael Dean I know he's spoke earlier I'll I'll give him his opportunity if he comes back um Larry Hopper good afternoon and thank you for an opportunity to to address the commission my name is Larry Hopper I don't live in Dell City okay I'm a ward for Oklahoma City resident live about three miles from the site but believe it or not I grew up two blocks east of this site uh 22nd bit because it used to be in Old growth Woods that was inally torn down to become a housing project public housing project that's a lot of why I became a city planner so so very odd that here in the waning years of my career this same site is coming back again so everybody agrees this County Jail is going to have to go somewhere we have to do something but uh you know I've known the site for a long time but this isn't the location and among other things what I really believe is that the application really is inadequate and that the applicant needs to spend a little more time on things like the program description there needs to be more time spent on looking at some of the issues like the sewer and then it should come back because because it's just premature to really take any action I'm actually one of those who's saying either recommend denial today or continue it just for two weeks but maybe a month or two so just to kind of get to some of the specific things reading the the staff report very closely in terms of the program uh the program description it does talk about how there are four conditions but one thing that is clear is that a special permit can also have uh some additional uh standards that really weren't mentioned earlier and it's mentioned on the last page of the of the uh staff where it says that the program description should address the means to mitigate impacts on surrounding land uses it should basically uh describe the behavior of persons in there in the in the facility and what I would suggest is that the program description doesn't really follow that format it really seems more like an architectural listing in description uh some of the presenters did a great job of trying to present how the operation occurs that sort of information sounds as though it really should be written in the program description where it's in writing clear for everybody to hear but it's really not there so the one of the te is uh that this project should meet the four conditions those four conditions are kind of interesting and and one thing I didn't say is yeah I have been a professional planner for so many years but when I read that the four conditions that the applicant is in essence voluntarily talking about are parking utilities the fencing the inmate release and transportation here's one thing that's interesting about the parking I think it has uh the facility would have 234 employees per shift with 2 188 spaces well it's hard to have a shift time with overlap with that few of spaces so somehow it would seem like the parking space needs the parking needs to be redesigned and brought back to the commission uh at a later date um there just not enough parking there and that's going to change things like obviously the storm water impacts another thing is that on the utilities even though in this program description says it's served the staff report itself indicates that public works or some engineering department of the city is saying that we're not sure if the sanitary sewer is up to capacity and it is being reviewed seems like this shouldn't be considered by this commission until it's clear if it is adequate because that might be millions of additional dollars for either the applicant the county or the city taxpayer to pay for so premature in that regard and kind of a similar thing was the comment that was made about public transportation you know I worked for embark for 15 or 20 years the cost of having an all day bus route for 16 hours seems like it's something like 300,000 to half million dollar who would pay those expenses the county or who so kind of premature there's a lot L of comments that were made today about how we're working on this we're working on that but uh a lot of those loose ends need to be tied up before you guys have to make a recommendation the uh fencing and Landscaping it was good to hear the discussion about 30 seconds 12 foot uh 12 foot fence but you know more could have been said and really aside from that I would just say that U there's a lot of good reasons why it's not a great great location but the application itself not well uh put together and really locations closer to downtown or other places could probably work no reason why a two-story building couldn't be somehow stacked so that there's plenty of extra light and ramp systems that could be used in L of elevators things like that hey thank you for a chance to address thank you next we'll hear from Jamie Graham good afternoon Jamie Graham from Reliant Living Center I'm uh one of the program directors there um we have been established there since 1963 we have six facilities tucked away in that neighborhood so just keep that in mind Reliant Living Center is a not for-profit living center in of intellectual disabilities Reliant Living Center is not a lock down facility meaning we stay open we have to keep our doors unlocked all day 24 hours a day there are two of the communities on Southeast 22nd Street Bryant place in ICF and four locations on 18th Street which is dc16 in Mansfield JJ's and Dyson place which would be in close proximity of the proposed County Jail residents depending on their level of IQ certain residents are allowed to come and go as they wish as per state requirements and regulations Reliant living centers residents regularly utilize the walking trail on Grand bulevard located on Grenville Boulevard located and established by the maps program residents of Reliant living centers range from mild moderate and severe intellectual disabilities uh with some being extremely vulner vulnerable Reliant Living Center is not a lock down facility once again we have medication we have narcotics um that are in that are controlled but they're in lock boxes but once again we're not a locked facility should the county jail site be located on the proposed property it would Place residents of Reliant Living Center at possible risk since we are not lock down facility should the mental facility in the county jail be located on transitional excuse me the transitional facility on the county jail with the county jail be located on on the proposed property it would violate some of our situations in that area pertaining to us um should this be approved it would be an extreme Financial Cal burden on Reliant Living Center as Reliant would have to implement security measures that would exceed the financial capabilities of Reliant living centers implementing suben security measures would not only be unpractical but would also violate the human rights of the residents by placing them in incarcerated environments it was said uh we would have to put a you all would put a 12 foot Bob wire fence around the prison or the the the jail well unfortunately we cannot use the same measures to keep our residents safe thank you thank you next we'll hear from Amanda Ratliff okay excellent uh Mark Faulk hi thank you my name is Mark faul 803 Northwest 32nd Street I do not live in Dell City I live um in poo and I have been at this jail many many times the existing one I want to start with this have you done a safety study on this when you look at allowing a business a regular business to build a business in an area what would you do if that business had a history of inside of their perimeter rape violence death allowing people out onto the streets who were criminals would you allow that business if it was a bar to build close to a neighborhood I pause it to you I am with the people's Council for Justice Reform we have been fighting this battle for years over incarceration in Oklahoma County I would pause it to you that the Oklahoma County Detention Center is the most violent building in Oklahoma if you allow they have allowed rapists to walk the street and I hate to be blunt about this but a person raped a woman handcuffed to a bar in the hallway at the jail on video and because it is a privately run facility now even though the district attorney at the time recommended immediate charges filed against that rapist because it was on video the Detention Center said no they turned him loose 6 months later he turned up in Florida when charges were finally filed the victim was gone so they dropped the charges again does Del City need that person wandering the streets in their neighborhood I would say they don't they accidentally have left left multiple people loose from that jail on a regular basis they have had people walk out that were trustees just walk away from that facility they have had escapes since that facility was open multiple escapes it is a deadly facility and no it is not just the building it is not just the building it is a culture We have dealt with the CEO there we have dealt with the former CEO we know that the COO has the person who TRS the Detention officers and sets an example for them has kicked people in the head when they were down on the ground in front of multiple guards this is a violent facility and really just as much because of the Detention officers and the culture of how that facility is run as it is the detainees they will not protect that neighborhood and now we know for a fact that it doesn't matter what they promise you in bus rides back downtown that's an optional anyone who is released has a right to walk through any neighborhood in Dell City they are not required to take a bus back downtown and again why are we replicating all of the services that we already have downtown why are we saying that we're going to replicate them spend money to put a courtroom there to put mental health facilities there when they don't even have enough money to build the Jael itself and they've admitted as much $260 million do you know why they want the 5050 million in arpa funds because they need money to build their jail the arpa funds money and we're waiting for a a a final determination but the US government has said specifically you can not use arpa funds to build a jail that is a federal law when they say we're going to build a mental health facility we have harassed them so much about it and called them out so much now they're saying we're going to put in airspace we're going to make a little separate building right next door to it but it's still going to be run by the jail it's still going to be used to funnel people who have mental health issues who have been criminalized and who have been traumatized in that jail into a mental health facility the reality is this they need to be sent back to the drawing board they need to reduce incarceration in Oklahoma County they're bragging about finally starting to reduce that jail population but we know that over 50% of the people in there have serious mental health issues and should not be in there in the first place we should not criminalize them we should not criminalize homelessness I understand that you have a a narrow purview of what you're able to consider in this but consider this consider this consider the safety of those residents thank you sir consider that the proposal is not a good proposal they cannot fund these issues we ask you to listen to the citizens and send them back to the drawing time has end thank you I'm going to do my best on this and I apologize for my inability to read it so I'm going to read the address because I'm very confident in that 2325 Southeast 11th Street okay thank you Mr Cobb from midell good after good afternoon I'm Rick Cobb I'm the superintendent of middell public schools and I appreciate the Commissioners giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of our community today um our community midell it's not just Midwest City and it's not just Dell City we also have schools in Forest Park and and Oklahoma City and so addressing uh this commission you know has some relevancy there but I do want to talk about what I see up on the screen and I wish that this Google Earth capture if that's what it is um had more color in it because what I heard earlier when the commission was talking about I think it was proposal nine the charter school on Highline about keeping just the nature of the area intact I think that's similar to the language that was used and and I I think that's an important consideration when you're looking at any any sort of of of planning uh for an area and I look at this area and I don't I don't mean this to be factious but imagine someday in the future that you're looking out from um Broadway at Bricktown from one of the high floors looking South and you're looking out you see the first American Museum and you see the water park and the hotel and you see what color would show a little better Trosper Golf Course here you see bike trails that were paid for by maps that were referenced earlier this is this is a possible entertainment Corridor that can be the nature of this Corridor and I'm not suggesting you you scrap this and put the the amphitheater there that that was rejected earlier this week but but but honestly when I look at the nature of this area I see uses that are not consistent with the jail no matter what adjacent properties are E2 and and E3 what I see as as mayor een pointed out very well is that the world does not end it Brian for my students that's kind of where the world begins that's the eastern boundary of really the lower half of our district not counting some of Forest Park that crosses I35 I had a student who spoke at a senior Del City High School Liliana ree who spoke at the county commissioner meeting a few months ago she lives on Brant her house would be 5 to 700 ft from the boundary because it curves a little bit there uh of the jail and so it's not that the jail can't be 12200 more than or closer than 1200 feet from a school that's obvious we we all we all accept that but my students are within 12200 feet of the jail my students walk to and from school every day and look at how densely populated that area is along Bryant look how many students are walking to and from eply high elementary school every single day and their starting point is 5 to 700 ft from the boundary of that jail facility uh the gentleman earlier mentioned uh John Rex Elementary School and how close it is to the current jail facility the jail was there first the people who founded John Rex chose to build a school that close to the jail you know we talk about the we talk about the West Village and some of the other high-end residential areas that are downtown here in Oklahoma City again the jail was there first they chose to build their gated communities that close to the current jail site and so when we're thinking about the jail and how close it is to where people live and where people go to school and all of the other different kinds of facilities that are nearby I do think that thinking about the nature of the area and keeping it intact is very important and there are people in this room that can speak in legal terms about on both sides of about what can and can't be done with this property and I'm not an expert in any of that at all but there's a different conversation about what can and what should be done and I'm going to encourage you to vote against the the special use application because I think about the nature of what happens on the east side of Bryant and where my students are just a few hundred feet from this proposed jail location and I thank you for your time thank you Dr cob um Miss Crawford well I'm going to tell you I'm going to make a little shaking today but I have essential trimers but that that does not change my purpose for being here today I am so resolved that we need to persuade you folks to make the best choice for Dell City and ma'am could you just give us the name your name and address yes my name is Leva Crawford at 4428 Southeast 35th thank you if we don't have enough problems with the proposal for the new County Jail in our area and backyards there are some plant possible I've just heard I read it a couple of days that uh there's planning to be an addition cup an additional coupling with the mental facility it has been difficult enough for us in living this in this area in dull City to have safe programs safe neighborhoods keep our property value up and be able to sleep at night without being awakened by gunshots in the last 48 hours in fact um and in the last few in the last 48 hours we had a shooting at 44th in Sunny Lane some on Bryant and um then one that was on Bryant but it was a little closer to Valley burck that's that's a lot to think about that's a lot on our plates as Citizens um sorry I'm shaking but it's okay I'm still we don't need the jail in our neighborhood do you think even for a minute anyone being transferred to Tinker would consider purchasing a home in our area if these facilities are built here I don't think so and when my time comes we've lived in our home 48 years when the time comes my kids won't get anything they won't have anything in their Banks from all the years that my husband worked at tinker and all the years we've spent running our kids through Townson School and for me this is a real issue that our Nest EG could turn to nothing and there's a lot of actual issues but um what happened to the Declaration of Independence where we should have certain unable rights among those which are life liberty and the pursuit of our own happiness in Dell City and not that I don't have concerns for other issues but at our age that's our issue um according to those proposing the jail in D City I suppose everyone else living in affluent areas should have the rights to their Liberties but not Dell City or or its surrounding neighborhoods it is all about money there there has been no other important time in my 48 years in Dell City than this very moment and this very crucial issue please don't think for one minute that it doesn't matter to Dell City regarding the proposed assault against our community and our livelihood will you please stand with us and grant us favor block this jail please consider our community needs and our lifetime Investments and vote against the proposed jail and mental facility which we believe is a vicious attempt to Strongarm a proud and loyal community of Del City thank you thank [Applause] you um next we have Cynthia and of course I'm I'm gonna mispronounce it again Cen Celli right yes okay okay got one okay you want to use their exhibit okay oh no I wanted the other one up there um no the other one yeah that's one um Cynthia cerelli um I'm representing um the people in uh oh sorry 20 28 28 Northwest 57th Street um Oklahoma City um representing um my business my clients um my colleagues um I've had petitions for this in my office people are signing it one is to keep it downtown the other is to nck the uh grand Grand Boulevard uh property um so I'm actually going to refer not only to the the incarcerated who will be released but also to the visitors not to say every visitor is going to be malicious but there will be some and I'm going to say the ter use the term um birds of a feather so bus stops 2 miles down Bryant at 44th that's one bus stop on 15th 2 miles west is a bus stop at high and then on Eastern 2 miles North is the Greyhound bus stop so that that right now that's how that's what the visitors will have that's what the incarcerated will have so what I'm going to point to here is the distance from the Lobby's front door which is yellow on this on this on over here is the yellow part to the medical clinic is approximately the same distance from the Lobby's front door to the front door of the houses of eply heights an established Dell City neighborhood on Bryant that's been there for over 70 years now if you fold this map on Grand and you just take the footprint of that property there are around 200 houses that are within that footprint now I'm not including um Reliant and little Harvard in that or lock supply or any of those businesses if you folded along that I if you hold that um let's see let see there were around 200 houses but if you fold it along Bryant which is the the limit from Oklahoma City to Del City you can add a hundred about a couple hundred more houses now with the average of 2.5 persons per household that's approximately 500 to a th000 Dell City residents who live within just the footprint of that property and again that doesn't include business businesses or churches from the property line to property line of both Reliant Living Center and little Harvard that's property line of that of that property to their property is approximately the same distance from the front door of the jail to the central Courtyard which is that little green green [Music] area here that's the same distance from property line to property line now if you fold this map down on 22nd it'll Encompass eight holes of golf um from trur golf club now according to Greg Williams the CEO of our current Oklahoma County Detention Center fentanyl overdose is the leading cause of death among 18 to 15 year olds and the drug has made its way into the detention centers across the country and Oklahoma City is no exception the proximity of I35 checks a box for the County Commissioners easy on easy off transport but it's also the intersection of two major eastwest north south arteries of the United States I35 and I40 a known trafficking route we know these drugs are are prevalent in our area due to the number of none vending machines throughout the city the C Hots will have the same accessibility to this easy on easy off Route and an open invitation to our cities to our businesses and our most vulnerable of children and our and our most vulnerable our children so I'm just asking you please do not put the jail here I mean other than all the other things that everybody said so thank you very much for your time I appreciate you thank you thank [Applause] you next we'll have uh Gina stanridge hi my name is Gina Standridge I represent middale School Board ward 3 which is the biggest part of Dell City that area I want you to take into consideration that this site is one of the only sites that has the amount of schools that any site has had some sites have come off the list because they were in close proximity to one school there are 10 in this area midell has five Dell City has five of our own there are two private schools within close proximity three four or five minutes um Crooked Oak if you throw that in there there are three of theirs elementary middle and high school we are the only site that they have picked that has that many schools that this is going to affect folks we're talking probably six 7,000 kids okay when they said that they're going to limit the time that somebody gets out of jail okay they're going to get out at 7:00 keep in mind that's when kids are at a bus stop waiting to get on a bus is that safe we have a lot of kids in this area the safety of our kids depends on this they say this is the best site of what they've got maybe so they threw off sites for no reason at all less valid reasons than we have presented since September some sites have come off the list just because they were never tested so how do they know if this was truly the best site in addition to that I want to say we've talked some bit about Tinker Dell City is a community that was built around Tinker people move into Tinker for jobs we are we have families that live in that area because they wanted to be close to work they were moved in transferred in do you really think they're going to transfer into Dell City knowing that that Jael is right there I talked to two parents less than 800 feet off of 18th in Bryant they are military families there's their moms with their husbands deployed right now I don't think that's fair to them I don't think it's fair to our seniors that live 800 ft also that are in their 80s that cannot pick up and move right now another thing that hasn't been mentioned right on 15th where it says 15th Street those are Crooked Oak schools guys nobody's mentioned them there are probably two 300 smaller homes in that area that area right there predominantly Spanish speaking not one person has delivered anything in Spanish so they understand I know that for a fact cuz I went in that area with Flyers myself and I had huge communication barriers to those people had I not had a phone to translate they don't know what's going on that that's an injustice right there and those homes are almost just as close as our Dale City Homes Crooked Oak School 1.2 miles to that 1.1 mile to that campus eply Heights which is our closest school is 1.2 not much of a difference if you went through the back streets of our neighborhoods it's probably closer so I am asking you to please take those things into consideration when you're looking I'm also asking you to take into consideration your own plan OKC that you've got up some of your goals you have this jail is is not aligned with that if you look at live OKC 2 is to incorporate safety into the neighborhood design I think that goes AC against the jail right there live OKC number seven Revitalize and stabilize Urban neighborhoods think that goes against it too if you skip down to the educational plan strengthen OKC number two boost educational achievement through incentives and neighborhood diversification I think that goes against it live OKC create supportive learning environments now you guys haven't heard but we have brought students there have been three students speak so eloquently about their parents being in that jail and bringing them this close one little girl lives right at 18th in Bryant she has said please don't bring her dad that close to her she doesn't want to look at him so to say that you have an educational plan I think the jail defies every one of the goals you've got listed in your OKC plan for OKC please take all of that into consideration thank you thank you next we have uh Walter jock oh you spoke hello Walter Jack 4832 Kel strive in Dell City and I spoke a little bit earlier won't take up too much time but you know I find it really really interesting and I and I know this guy's a very likable guy and I and I do like him but you know didn't he just say a little bit AG no sir remember our rules you're directing your comments to the commission let's not have any any offensive statements about anyone speaking to I'm not going to be offensive I promise I won't but he just said it would be impossible to build the new jail on the current site when another presenter 45 minutes earlier just said he could build the tallest building in the country on a similarly sized lot that's that's not true at all okay so maybe we should hire the guy building the tower to do the jail that's all got to say thanks thank you uh next we'll have Michael Washington Shame Shame Shame sir we need your name and address for the record my name is Michael Washington the one and only 100 park with a PE place on it now then Shame Shame [Music] Shame Oklahoma County criminal justice advisory committee who was established in 2015 to study the variance as well as placement and conditions of the Oklahoma County Detention Center that I so rightfully dubbed as the house of horror that's right the many killings that have gone on the unusual placement of people leaving them in over their time can't even make bond can you imagine the people that's already upset about not being able to get out the light the way they like to be now you want to take a place from Oklahoma County put it in Dale City and have this wonderful people behind me and others worried about when the next move is going to create oh Nook County oh Nook County Commissioners you're not going to P your unwanted on us today I don't even live in Del City but I say us because I favor what they're talking about the people now let's get that clear I fully support the people of Dale City these wonderful people sitting with me out here who again men do not want the house of horror placed in their Community but despite their concerns it doesn't make a difference to the County Commissioners regardless of the likelihood of increased crime the prevalence of other places that could they can be play placed as jail in many plac look how big okoma is you just got to come to Dale City put it in Nicholas Hills you know why because ain't no dog going well your job is over with if you don't stop it quiet now let's not discriminate and Karen Bloomer if you watching me Miss Bloomberg just like when they propos to put that jail in the black community we stood up and said oh hell no you listen to these people they telling you the same thing you can go right now and say hold up County Commissioners I'm not going to do this let's go and do something El Mr Washington this is your one and only warning please do not use f language please make please directly address I can talk to the Commissioners too like I said teren bler cuz they're the only Commission Bloom M we do not want you in here and you need to straighten this thing out because it is malicious flagrant disregard for the rights of the citizens of their city and I will stand up and vote for them and help them out if they need a lawsuit filed I would do it gladly and without charge now then I'm compassionate speaking I'm going to continue to be nobody going to walk that for me now let's move on while we have time now then this body has heard and we continue to hear further intelligent comp passionate and sincere thoughts for why you should vote down the Oklahoma County Commission request as it being restrictive discriminatory one-sided and unreal everyone knows that there's a national push to criminalize homelessness and by necessity this will increase and insure influx of homeless people going to jails and spending a lot of their lives there they will be hard off to Dell City now and then those that don't want to come home and y'all just y'all know just like encampment goes on they're going to start encamping right there D City cuz I ain't got no place to get back down no I don't have to ride no bus if I don't want to so now you got people sting on on the streets of Dell City now in the Parks sleeping you know on the toilet paper whatever they got let's keep on now I said you finally what time show gets fly when I'm speaking finally it is a safe bet that the commissioner is on the side of the wealthy folks and you want to clean up downtown area because of all coming in and that's why you have L people on the streets in your way for whatever you want to do downtown bing bing that's right so you're trying to move the citizens on the streets out of the way put them out there in the jail in Dale City to mess up them people otherwise peaceful humble lives that they are enjoying we're not allowed like I say I don't live there my presentation may not be what a lot like but that's what makes me individual that's what make democracy so great isn't it I ain't ask about to be like me and I'm not GNA be like Johnny down the street either if I don't want to be okay Mr Washington your time has expired thank you sir like H think I'll be back thank you have a great day next we have next we have Jess Eddie Jess Eddie 419 West Hill Street Oklahoma City resident ward two um thank you to the commission Commissioners and the chair uh for your patience um and attention to this matter um I do believe it is a matter of great public concern and Grave public concern um I think that criminal justice reform has been at the top of the priority list of Oklahomans not only in this County but throughout this state for the last decade and I think that good policy has led to better outcomes um we're looking at building a much larger jail here uh and population growth was cited but I would point out that about a decade two decades ago and a decade ago the county jail population was about 2700 uh we're at about 12 1300 now thanks to good policy better Services uh better District Attorneys prosecutors better policing all these things um have contributed to a reduction in population uh because what we know as a society that looks at data respect process is that most of the people that are incarcerated need resources Mental Health Behavioral Health hospitals things of that nature removing incarcerated people some of the most vulnerable people in our community from the center of our community in close proximity to all of those Services is um frankly a bad decision and uh it's a decision that has not been accompanied with process um uh the appropriate levels of process and consideration community involvement um and frankly uh been accompanied with half truths and fabrications and falsehoods um and manipulations uh you know there there there is no resources in this package to provide transportation there's been discussions with the diversion Hub which has the essentially a short bus one rust bucket that goes up and down the street to pick people up from the jail that doesn't have the capacity to transport people that's that's disingenuous to suggest that is a reasonable uh solution to the distance people would be out here in the Hinterlands of our community as a recovering alcoholic uh 10 years I'm pretty uh passionate about the principles of treatment people who are suffering in those ways from those afflictions uh behavioral mental they need to be placed at the center of our society they need our ition time and investment and this is a cost-saving measure uh to expand our capacity to incarcerate yes there's more space for services but that is not the primary purpose of this policy measure as opposed to keeping it downtown um keeping it downtown I heard the use of John Rex the adjacent apartment buildings all of which were mentioned as uh concerns and reasons not to keep it downtown though I think we all know that those were built while the jail was there these neighborhoods in Dell City these schools they were there now and while I don't fear a jail in my neighborhood um I understand why they do um we need to uh as a city and I think I'm I'm actually excited at the opportunity that this process is get in front of a body such as you that I think is much more experienced and capable of assessing and evaluating these kinds of major infrastructure and policy undertakings make no mistake the selection and site and building of a jail is the biggest criminal justice policy decision we as a community will make and so I I rebuke any notion that the Planning Commission doesn't have the authority scope and jurisdiction to take any consideration that affect people in our community into your consideration on this decision and as uh someone with a law degree who's reviewed your bylaws and your policy manuals and stuff I didn't see anything that suggested that you shouldn't take into consideration anything that you think should be in your consideration um 30 seconds remaining I've been working on this for about five years with the jail and it's just disheartening that the County Commissioners um have haphazardly walked into this situation and tried to drag us into a really bad outcome uh when we could and should have a good one thank you thank [Applause] you uh Michael Dean good afternoon again Michael Dee 4220 o Brook Drive d City sorry this is now the second biggest thing in the generation for your committee to hear today after the building um but I hope that you can bear with a few more minutes and uh what what I'm up here for is and what you're here for us to determine whether or not it is compatible is the jail compatible with this community and so what the package has neglected the show and this is why I'm up here is is that crooked Oaks Stadium is 1,36 Ft from the property line why is that important is originally I thought it was 700 and the state law is a th000 foot so because I mentioned that was 1,000 foot away or 700 foot away just by mistake that's what started this idea to move the stadium but guess what it's not the 12200 foot that they said it's a th000 foot and so in the end there is no incentive for the um Oklahoma County to move that Stadium and that stadium is most likely going to stay there if you go on Facebook I tried to go and pull up some pictures for you is is pull up any of the pictures of the rough necks from Crooked Oak they have their softball teams their football teams or ban everybody's out there practicing and if you remember baned and football practice it starts hurly and guess who's going to be getting out is is the inmates are going to be being released and what's the street that the this is on it's on 22nd Street it is on the most direct route to get back to um the city or any place that you might want to go and so in the basically in the morning whenever you have all these youngsters out here you're going to have the possible criminals out there so I wanted to go and say about this possible criminals is this there is something about like wait are they going to be released everybody who's in jail with the very few exceptions they're all innocent because guess what in the US we're all innocent until proven guilty so guess what that also means that means that you get to be released on bail and that we don't and basically there's laws against us trying to protect or try to keep those criminals in jail who needs to be there such as sex offenders they can be released as well and so when you're looking at compatibility you have the stadium with young children being exposed to potential capital offenses or sexual offenses you have the park you have TR Park you have the actual playground you're releasing this whole you're moving this whole segment of society to the southeast Oklahoma City to this part that has no resources and just letting them go and then they're going to be able to be with the park so the park is an an absolute no compatibility with the jail how about the jail is the jail jail compatible with the uh with the cers and on the jail there's no facilities there there's not a Bell's bondsman there's not anything there the jail is not compatible with Del with this area because there is no facilities for it um and again the most important reason and why I'm fighting up here why the Oklahoma standard applies is I drove by relan Center and I thought it was just a nursing home so whenever I looked over and I saw the double glass door that's across a 3-ft fence that's less than this and the little gate that's open and I saw the residents in there I go wow they're going to have trouble you know there's going to be people knocking on the door and banging but guess what as she said she said it was it's not allowed to be locked down they're not allowed to lock that double ban that double glass door ever that door is open all the time so they're not going to be out there knocking on the door doing this they're going to be walking in to go find the bathroom because you know happen to forget to do that before I got released they're going to be walking in there there are Narcotics inside that building they're going to have narcotics they're going to have the buildings but the most thing is is I was in the you know I was on the ship in the Coast Guard and navy is is you're ready to go get a smoke you're coming out there they you know you lost your smokes during the arrest you have no money you have you're desperate for a smoke the residents can smoke even though it's a you know public facility or whatever it is there so whenever they were out there smoking or exercising on the trail which they currently do and they have every right just like every residence does they're going to be harassed and possible getting into fights over cigarettes these residents go and have friends in D city they're walking blocks basically two three blocks in is another facility say go to see their friends they're going to be exposed so again the reason why I'm fighting the reason why these citizens are fighting this is the worst place for a jail the county had five the county came up with four additional spots and any of the four additional spots we all agree would be much better and but again this is the worst spot thank you for the time thank you for all you do for us okay that concludes the people who are signed up to speak before we close um I would like to hear from the mayor then we'll hear from the applicant will have questions for the mayor if you'd like to have uh Blaine speak as well that'd be appropriate at this point to give us a final statement after the mayor has spoken after the applicant Mr box has spoken we will then close any public discussion and the Planning Commission alone will speak and make a determination about our recommendation to the city council Mr Mayor thank you again for allowing us to speak I would just like to remind everybody that 31 years ago our County Comm Commissioners built us a state-of-the-art jail there were funding shortfalls there were problems finishing it they had to short some of the materials that were used because they were running out of money we all know how that jail has been run for the last 31 years we know how the oversight has been we we've had people speaking to the conditions in the jail this is what our County Commissioners have presented us with the last 31 years why do we think they're going to do any better now they're still short on money they still can't fund the Staffing that's needed in the current jail yet we're getting all these promises of a beautiful building and all the Staffing and all these benefits but they've not produced anything yet in the last 31 years that gives us any confidence that they're going to run this facility any better than the last facility that current facility so basically the reason this is being pressured to push through quickly is they've fumbled the selection site they've fumbled selecting an appropriate site for the new jail now they're up against the deadline well as they say your lack of preparation doesn't constitute an emergency for me these Commissioners have failed to work effectively to find an appropriate site now they're grasping now they're pushing don't bow down to their pressure it's not your problem it's not your pressure to save arpa funding just because they've fumbled too long take your time take the selection put this off and re research it if you want to but if you're if you are satisfied as I am that this is a horrible location to put a jail then just vote no please help us as a neighbor vote against them putting a jail at our townside thank you thank [Applause] you briefly thank Mr chairman the only thing I want to mention is I've been in front of this board before and you guys have had applications that had a lot of questions and you weren't comfortable making a recommendation on those and I feel like that's what we have here at the very least we have aot an application with a lot of unanswered questions staff doesn't even have a recommendation they're just kind of saying here it is we just don't feel like there's enough enough information for you guys to make an informed decision I I think it either needs to be postponed or uh recommend denial at this point there's just too many unanswered questions for a project this size as I said this is generational I mean this isn't a small little development it's huge so I just even staff had a lot of questions and I just feel like there's too many unanswered questions for you guys to to recommend approval at this time we'd asked that you recommend denial or or ask those questions so thank you thank you Mr chair if we're just going to deliberate I'd like to make sure to highlight my questions for David before he goes could I do that okay I know you got a list probably David already you can address but I want to make sure particularly some of them that have come up that I want to make sure you're going to address again you might already plan to cover all these first was the one by um councilman Tatum it and it's also in the in the staff's report sort of recommendation this Transitional Living facility issue um in your list of I3 one of the items listed here it needs a special permit is Transitional mental health residential facility is that the same thing as the Transitional Living is what the applicant is proposing here also need the Transitional Living facility what is the difference between those two and is it needed and if so why is it not being asked for today why is that additional special permit not being asked for that was one number number two um I believe it was also councilman Tatum he he referenced the state statute he said this must be 2500 ft from private or public schools juvenile facilities and and sex fenders I want you to address whether that was true if it's 2500 or not um that was new to me so I'm not aware of that one I only have three more I think here want to highlight um actually only one more for you and it was I hope you're addressing Miss Graham's position here that Reliant facil you've been talking about what's bordering it it's caddy Corner whatever it would be I appreciate you highlighting that is the most concerning adjacent um to me is that c caddy Corner Reliant facility I was not aware of what that was right there until she presented okay uh so I'll I'll address your questions first and then get to the points I was going to make on the Transitional Living facility I went out in the hall spoke to the City attorney spoke with Miss Welch an additional special permit is not needed what we have applied for covers everything necessary any other uses that are on site are deemed accessory to the main use which is why you don't see an additional special permit the City attorney Mr Barker who's now gone Miss Welch and I spoke in the hall my belief but all defer Miss Welch was we are comfortable with what has been applied for to cover everything needed Sarah Welch planning department our um assessment of the special permit is that when the transitional um residential facilities are two separate things when you look at the City Zoning code and the state law RTE is trying to address the transitional facilities that are defined by state law which means that after you are released from a facility and you you go live somewhere um the state has very specific noticing requirements that were not part of this application and so RTE is directed at um should this site not become the County's Detention Facility that it couldn't become a different private Detention Facility um otherwise our zoning code looks a lot at whether the people who are in the facility can leave on their own and so in this particular case our definition in the city's zoning code does not allow people to um release themselves therefore we're considering that an accessory use to the potential facility and can you confirm that that is in fact going to be the case with the behavior avoral yes care facility that it that it is people there will not be permitted to come and go as they please yes I think that's what the te seeks to address and we agree to the te um on the the separation requirement for sex offenders it's not applicable because these people are incarcerated so it it it's not applicable we will comply with all state federal local laws we do not seek to skirt around any laws that apply to anything as relates to the site the way he read it was 2500 ft from private or public schools well it for a sex offender to choose to live there these are incarcerated people he's wrong on the application of the statute okay but I mean I deferred the City attorney but we will meet all federal local state law um in terms of the concern with the uh site there east of grand north of 22nd Street again we will have 12T High chain link fence around the entirety of our site three strand barb wire on top the site will have internal security of course so it will be uh a massively secure facility um frankly again if you look at the pictures that were shown to you by some of the neighbors as to what's happening right now on the site um I would think the concern would be greater today with what's happening on the site compared to a secure lockdown facility like the Detention Center some of the other points there was a a mention about sewer therefore the staff report said something and therefore the infrastructure is not in place if we have to pay to upsize we'll pay to upsize whatever the public works department and utility department tell us we have to do as it relates to city services we will have to do um the bottom line is there's not a single site that I could put for this commission to consider that there'd be a group of people stay standing behind me to support it bottom line is the jail is a difficult site to locate this site was one of 15 separate sites that were reviewed by H H tells me and they do this all over the country they typically will look at two to four sites when citing a correctional facility a detentional facility here they looked at 15 they had a more exhaustive search in our community than you typically see across the country this site of the 15 sites was the highest rated site based upon the 17 objective criteria the comment about tinker tinker was involved in this process there were a handful of sites that Tinker said no to those sites were removed this was not one of those sites the point I was trying to make that was perhaps lost about the current facility and its proximity to John Rex and residential was not that it was a problem next to it it was that those uses John Rex all of the residential that chose to move to the jail have been able to live harmoniously not that it's a problem but it's the opposite in fact you've seen more investment in close proximity to the current jail than you've seen in Generations in downtown Oka City without any reported problems we ask you to approve this site allow our community to get a new facility built in a manner that will allow staff and inmates to be treated humanely and be safe thank you thank you oh before you sit down I mean I know I have questions I'm sure there probably other people do too and you you covered several of them good work commissioner Le Forge um so I won't ask you why there's no recommendation from the staff but I will ask them later um you know there's been some discussion about compliance with the program uh description um and I maybe this is not really a question for you I'm a little um vague about you know how will we know whether they're complying with the program description and if they're not what would we do about it you know in terms of that commitment I'm I'm a little fuzzy about how that's going to work um I wanted to know the issue of security which is a huge huge issue for anybody living there a facility like this I mean you know that's a no-brainer um I noticed on the architectural drawings that we saw or the the layout drawing that there are persons here who are minimum security medium security maximum security would I be accurate in um I don't want to say assuming but it will the security for the entire facility be at a maximum security level despite the various levels of persons who are incarcerated there yes it would be uh the entire perimeter of the jail building will be a maximum security perimeter so a maximum security inmate walking through the corridors to get to where he need he or she needs to be would be you know in a maximum security facility okay okay and then it just seems to me maybe this is also a question that's more for our discussion amongst ourselves I'm not sure but wouldn't almost all of the concerns that we've heard here today be um resolved or addressed if this simply was not the place from which people were released if before they signed that document saying I'm out of here they were down downtown or someplace where they are in closer proximity to services and not in close proximity to this residential area and speak to that so as to the specific point that is declared the release Point only the presiding judge and the district attorney can Define that point so but if we start telling him from now on that place is going to be you know 101 North whatever isn't that what they'll Rite into their orders from now on I mean it's not like they're actually choosing they're releasing them from a facility that just happens to be where they fill in a blank I mean if we tell them fill in the blank this way my fear is take three years from now before this place is up and running my fear is we cannot direct every one of those judges to do what we want them to do some of them may choose to do that I bet we cannot tell them what to do I'm not sure but I don't think it's even a question of us telling them what to do I mean I think that's just a like a you know A administrative thing the the address they're putting in there as the address to which they're being released is where the release place is if we tell them the release place is now at this address that's what they'll fill in won't it be no I mean it's a decision between the Jud the presiding and the district attorney which which gets really to where you're going on your previous point about the program description a lot of the operational matters that happen within the jail are within the purview of the PJ and the District Attorney's office and the people operating the jail and so it's it's not like it's a you know the the most common special permit use you see is a car lot right that's an easy thing to say no outdoor speakers no outdoor lights here are the hours of operation this is just not the type of use because of the nature of the use and frankly the nature of sometimes policies needing to change that you can in stone say here are the parameters that you Oklahoma County have to operate in within this Detention Facility it's a complicated use within the walls of this facility that have multiple different entities at play as to how the operations will occur it sounds like your question is also getting at enforcement capability and to the extent to the extent that it's about um external factors that create nuisance I would imagine you're creating legal liability um and that's really the enforcement mechanism for anything that that's not outwardly enforcable by the city because what I what I get concerned about is if we're talking about County judges and County orders by County officials do they have to comply how what's the extent to which they have to comply with the special permit and and I don't I don't have a clear answer for that except and maybe the municipal Council does but I but my thinking is it's our duty to make sure that we've been trying the rules to the best of our ability here and and for this special permit or to deny the special permit which are only our only real options I I question our ability to fully enforce operationally and the internal things that are occurring within the facility to enforce it and to understand what's happening about that I I agree with with that I I not to be inappropriately comedic here but are you really saying that we can't say there's no no outdoor speakers and no live music after 10 o'clock at this facility oh I'm saying you could certainly say things like that but in terms of directing the presiding judge in Oklahoma County where he h he or she has to dictate where the release point is I don't think that and my question to you again back to that isn't that simply an administrative function I mean do district court judges really say you're being released to you know the Jimmy's Egg on 23rd Street I mean don't don't these individuals win their freedom at the courthouse many do or charges are dropped and so administratively if they were to bring their personal belongings to their trial and they they they receive their freedom or their uh their uh yeah they receed their freedom there they ought to be able to be let go go downtown that's perhaps again it's it's the county is telling me no it is not as simple as an administrative function okay but and and I would certainly allow for you know unintended consequences I I would I'm not saying I would be 100% comfortable with directing that that they have to be released here or that they have to be released there because I don't know that much about how this works internally and frankly I'll say this while I'm talking and something that you all should keep in mind I think is that you know our job is to decide correct me if I'm wrong whether this piece of property is an appropriate one for this use or the other way with a special permit yes whether other way around you know whether you know this use is appropriate this location it's not our job to to decide whether the ideas that they have about how the jail will function are good ones or bad ones or you know whether they've thought enough about it yet or whether this site or this site or this site would be a better site that that's just not within our purview that's just not what we're here to do um but within what we are here to do I think you know we certainly do take cognizance of the fact that this is very close to a residential area and you know if there are things that we could do for instance um the idea of having people released from this facility at 700 p.m was what I heard said but then from 7:00 a.m.
7:00 p.m. but then I think it says actually in the program description midnight um it does not seem like a good idea to me um this close to a residential area if it were between the hours of you know 7:00 a. and 5:00 P p.m. when you know you can still go places and do things uh without just being put out onto the street without some place to go and something to do I would feel more comfortable with that you telling me we don't have that ability to attach as a condition the hours muh what I'm told is that the hours so the program description did not um get put together lightly or frankly by my office it was a combination of cjack presiding judge and other interested parties that are involved in the operation of this jail and will be involved in the operation of the new jail and so what has been put forth in terms of hours and square footage and all those things are what is willing to be agreed to by what I'm told cjack PJ and other parties that run the facility and so literally if if that's a deal breaker for them if I say I can't live with 7 PM it's like well my only add my only option is just to vote to deny the special permit mean really I mean we we we can put imposed requirements on a special permit that's what I thought exactly yeah I mean there's nothing but then I would have thought that no release from this side would have been one of those conditions that we could impose I think the problem with that maybe is the fact that once they're released they're public citizen but before they're released they can be transported downtown an hour before I mean you know I mean that's my point if this is not the point of release not released until they're someplace else I I don't see that as an issue and I'm thinking that most of these people would feel a lot better about this Pro process and I do not take lightly the is the you know views of people who are living in proximity this I have to say personally I think that this is going to be not only a much much much better facility but you know and much much much more secure but probably uh a relatively good neighbor I I know that probably would make you you know up cheuck a little bit but you know a facility like this there's not a lot of traffic coming and going they not going to be people wandering in and out of here it will be a a um homeless black hole they will move away from this site um you know crime will go down I I believe all of those things you locate something like this it doesn't mean I would want to live next door to one honestly and I don't blame these people for not wanting to live next door to one either um but that's not the only consideration for us you know there are a lot of other pieces to this puzzle I mean I I'm not I I'm at this point based on and I I think you know that from the very beginning when I first heard that we may have to consider this application the question that I asked repeatedly of Staff of legal counsel please tell me the authority of the special permit please share with me the limitations of that Authority what I'm assured is that we're allowed to put the rules in the special permit that we think would make it an appropriate use and so if we're saying we're going to Rel we want inmates released in this location I would say we need to put it in the special permit unless we receive word from our Municipal counselor that it's non-compliant I'd also say if we want to limit the hours of release that's also Within our authority to do and so I I would make and we at the end of the day are still making a recommendation to the city council for them to ultimately make this decision so we want to put this application in the best possible position for the city to make a decision and so to me if those are the concerns we have let's put it in there it's up to them to decide how they're going to enforce it they're asking us for a special permit well within our legislative Authority let's do it that's how I feel the only comment that I would have was I do agree with that generally but if there was some type of State Statute or court rules or whatever that would give them make an enforceable right give them the authority to do that then that might be a different matter well you'll have time to research that between here and city council or before before it's built they'll have time to May seems like this so I do other Commissioners have thought said like do I want to ask staff do I want to ask staff why there's no recommendation for approval yeah I mean that's one of my biggest questions because I mean I'm don't consider myself qualified to decide yeah whether this is a jail I mean as a planning commissioner I've learned a lot of things but this is one that I've not been really privy to and it it it just gets me in so so many different ways that I can't confidently say that I will you know support this for you know approval I I think as a land use I think it's probably a good spot and but as a resident of for for I wouldn't want it to be you know that close to my house but um but at you know at the same time I I'm not the only thing I'm going to propos today is a motion to continue and fix some of these issues and even then I don't know if I'm going to be on board after that but you know so we can continue you know deny or no recommendation if it's up to me but if somebody else wants to make another uh motion that's fine but uh I just I don't feel comfortable being the guy that says yeah you know this is where we need to put our new jail the current location to me I'm still not convinced that it can't be put there I know you know there's not enough space and you know we don't want to build it up we want to build it out which you know makes sense but you know they also built that first one with glass windows in it and people were repelling out of the sides of it so you know it is what it is but uh that's kind of where I'm at um you know I it's interesting to me for sure I would support continuation if I thought there were something to be gained by it yeah and that's where I'm at too I don't think I don't think we know what the issues are yeah think I'll get there anyway we know what their plan is and so I you know I think we I think I've got all the information I need to make a recommendation which is going to include no outdoor speakers by the way hey I would I would agree I don't know if the planning director wants to address the recommendation issue yes our our thinking was first of all well a few reasons one this was a shorten timeline um the desire to expedite this um so uh and there was uh conversations as as you as we always do with the applicant uh we we had concerns and some of those are articulated in the staff report you know the the conference plan typically talks about compatibility in the sense of kind of the immediate environments this clearly so it it's uh doesn't have much to say about a situation like this so it is a tricky situation we did have concerns about the impact on the neighborhood we um mainly the what what's been mainly discussed today was our chief concern the inmate release plan uh was you know was fairly brief in the program description we felt like it was more discussion was needed more detail needed to be heard and so this has been uh I think helpful for for me and I'm sure as it has to all of you um I think those are the those are kind of the main reasons um we just felt like the public process could help craft conditions if there were more more conditions that could be crafted uh to to make it more acceptable to recommend approval uh we hope to have more information to make that easier make those conditions easier to craft I would I would also say that I am I am um against this special permit and I am against the special permit because I am for putting the public first and I think a more robust and transparent public process should have been done um and and a greater collaboration between our city and county leaders should have been done prior to this application being made that having been said I am adamantly opposed to a continuance because I think that in a matter of this urgent concern is worthy of our elected officials to be immediately taking action no Neighbors in Dell City or in the Great City of Oklahoma City want to be subjected to having to wait any longer to find out what's going to happen with this situation I think we need more immediate answers and I think our elected officials need to take leadership in figuring us out a way that we can resolve this that's respectful and worthy of the public so I I'm opposed to to that but I'm curious to hear where our where our commissioners are to help us move this move this forward so that they can make that decision thanks um I too think we need to get moving and get it moved to the city council I um the opposite have gotten comfortable with the special permit clearly the land use here is appropriate with respect to the special permit um none of us are experts the city couldn't even come up with recommendation all that but the experts have looked um they looked at the 17 factors they found this is the highest rated spot nobody wants it anywhere Oklahoma city is in the center of the county this is relatively in the center of the city it is is if they deem it appropriate um location the experts have deemed it the highest rated and the most appropriate location there are going to be pros and cons on negatives we could talk about the negatives we can talk about the pros but the factors came out this was the highest rated spot so we got to get moving we got to build a new jail I think part of those issues are that it needs to not be tall it makes sense to me it needs to be spread out I think it's elevators I think it's Plumbing I think whatever it is they know and they're saying it needs to be um not a tall building so you find a spot that's um you can be spread out it's the highest rate spot um I would like to maybe hear or confirm that the city maybe routinely particularly now looks to see where new bus stops needs to be this certainly I think needs is if you have something this big workers um visitors inmates whatever they there's probably going to need a bus stop I I'm just going to assume that the city would relocate a bus stop there if it's needed and it seems like it's going to be needed um I am I was bothered by uh the Reliant Living Center there but it's already a tough area that was highlighted there's crime around this area already so if doors are unlocked doors are unlocked um it was it was bad before it may be bad later I'm not sure exactly I feel for you um but the way you're going to operate your business it was it's already um you already had to deal with that and then you're going to have to continue to deal with it um I'm in favor of it I don't know if we're going to have a recommendation either way but I I do think Mr chair as you said I think we should move forward um I Heard it it's it's uh commissioner privet Ward if wants to make a motion but otherwise when we're ready I would otherwise make a motion um to the opposite I'd make a motion to recommend approval I think we should give commission priv it that opportunity um yeah like I was saying i' I'd defer to aresty on that if he wants to recommend approval that's fine I I think that would probably which motion to we we typically it's a little weird to to do the other way around so I'll do that I'll make a motion to approve the special permit with the two tees I guess make sense um I'm clear enough I'll make that motion to approve it the two technical evaluations we going to make any changes on the hours of release are we leaving it and the only reason I was not I am not hearing clearly that those are enforcable I don't think I want um I don't think so I think judges do their best I think the faciliity is going to do their best I think all the experts are going to do their best to release at the most appropriate time and location and I don't know what that is but they do we do need another te for the height of fencing I think that I3 it allows 10 feet you need 12 correct sure we need to add the te number three for sure requiring 12 requiring 12 feet fency I can add that I can't vote for it without with the release here okay so so the motion is to recommend approval of of special permit uh 588 to the city council um subject to the technical evaluations adding an additional technical evaluation requiring that the fencing be a minimum of of 12T City they can make also make um amendments to the to the program description as well the motion's been made by commissioner Le Forge we are awaiting a second the second's been made by commissioner Noble please cast your votes and the motion fails for a lack of five votes um we I think there is consensus but I'm open to listening I think there is consensus that we do not want a continuance so the option is do we now vote on the motion to deny but I would imagine that the votes are not going to turn out with five in favor at this current moment the only option that I'm aware of assuming that our only options at this point motion to continue motion to make a recommendation of no recommendation I am not aware of whether the technical evaluations can be added to a recommendation of no recommendation or not what is was the Was the vote decided it was four to three so it failed it failed we need five can more tees be to change the so the people the people who are NOS yes could that's a good point if you guys want to discuss that if there's some more tees or conditions you guys won't put on it will not change my vote I I believe the te and I believe commissioner Powers might feel the same regarding the release site I believe that that could ride with a special permit and they have the time to figure that out um I believe that's that might change things Okay so do we want to hear a different motion with the different technical evaluations I'll move approval of the item if can find the right document uh SP 588 with um a te with respect to the height of the fence which needs to be 12 and A2 ft is that right minimum of 12 minimum 12 um a te regarding uh the the loners will not be released from this site um and I'm going to ask Jeff even though I know it's putting you in a terrible position should I specify that it needs to be downtown whether the judges listen or not since so that they don't just go to the corner of Southeast 20 what if ninth and Brian and drop them there well my thought is that if you say just blanket offsite just should be the next property over so you probably want to give some I'd say Oklahoma City or Oklahoma County Courthouse Oklahoma County courthous house or one of many service providers um but those would have to be listed out I would imagine so let's just say courthouse and go with that and then the that there's no outdoor louders I will include that um and that release is restricted uh to the hours between 700 a.m.
And 5:00 p.m. okay can you go ahead and read those give me the whole list one more time sorry to make sure all clear number one uh Security Fence minimum 12T um number two release site not here but at the Oklahoma County Courthouse three no outdoor loud speakers for um you're talking about release hours I I was but now that we've moved it down to the courthouse maybe that takes care of itself okay I think maybe it does okay so the existing program description hours will remain what they are so the motion is to recommend to city council approval of the special permit subject to the technical evaluations um requiring a 12 foot minimum fence uh requiring that release of inmates be held at the Oklahoma County Courthouse and what and that no loudspeakers will be permitted on the site that motion's been second no outdoor speakers and including the existing technical evaluations that are in the record the motion's been seconded by commissioner Meek please cash your votes and the motion passes thank you thank you at this time I would like to take this opportunity to remind our neighbors who are here that with this recommendation's being made to the city council the city council will have the authority to make the ultimate decision of whether to approve the special permit so in approximately 6 weeks the city council will vote and make a final decision the city council will have the same Authority that we do to make amendments to the program description and and to the special permit itself so I think that it it's highly recommended that you being engaged with your city council uh representatives and and make sure that your voices have been heard but I appreciate your efforts to be respectful in this process today we are now at the conclusion of our separate items to be heard are there any additional items seeing no additional items we're in line for communications and reports Planning Commission committees any reports Planning Commission members commissioner Powers I do have something um relative to the um giant building I noted that there was a notation that this is a vulnerable aquafer and it occurred to me that I often see that notation and I wonder what in the world are we doing about it ever and umie I know we have there's six there's six oil wells on this site too yeah all we do is uh submit for flood plane amendments and try to get out of the flood plane we don't I do find it interesting that they throw that in there every once in a while just so by the way oh by the way I you know I I think um you know plan OKC was not thrown together um over a weekend it was a long process it considered a lot of input and a a lot of data and um it says what it says for a reason and I think maybe a study session would be in order for us to you know dig into this a little bit I know there's a sustainability at least project wing of the city government whole department whatever I want to know what are we doing about this you know how do we how do we cope with that reality in the face of the fact that we want to see more development in Oklahoma City I mean what can we do what are we doing what are the obstacles to doing more if we wanted to do more what would it be I mean all of those things yeah um so we we are trying to put together a study session uh trying for May where we've got a few um things that may take a short amount of time but but the environmental concerns are one of them so and they're all interrelated uh what we're trying to do with the code update and we have a draft for example of the tree preservation ordinance and that's something that relates to this um we also want to address uh flood plane riparian areas because um as I said they're all interrelated so for example uh to address um the vulnerable aquafer um that could and the recharge of the aquafer the the trying to prevent pollutants from going into the aquifer so you're looking at um keeping a healthy runoff system and low impact development standards so you know we look at flood plane a lot you know it's a very practical concern nobody wants their house to flood but the other thing to consider is all these little streams that we have uh although they may not be a flooding major flooding problem they're cleaning the water uh so being careful about our development practices so uh and in terms of the just allowing water to infiltrate into the aquafer minimizing the amount of impervia surface so maybe in those areas we would have a different standard than other areas that we're less concerned about um so all these things we're working with working on now and it and tree preservation and habitat and the heat the heat island study U that's going to be one of the things that we'd like to bring to you uh because uh more Natural Area means less heat and specifically more trees uh are pretty effective but even just Prairie um so yes we I I agree we we are working on that it's being integrated into the code uh and we want to talk to you guys about it as well but I I will add we we had the the urban heat island on this next study session I'll see if we can add some more um discussion to that related to what you talked about thank you you may recall a ward 7 case in which we had a very in-depth discussion for from experts regarding offers and the travel oh yeah yeah cuz we were here for another late one on that one um so I think I might have heard all I can take on that but but I'll go to the study session anyway commissioner Meek unless there's anything else commissioner Powers I was volen told to be on the vision zero board and went to our first you're not quitting are you no you're not quitting are you me and uh commissioner commissioner Powers but she was excited about it and we're grateful wanted to thank I wanted to thank Jeff for that it was a it was a good meeting look forward to the next and uh that's my report thank you you commissioner privet commissioner Newman I'm good commissioner Noble um I just like to say I mean the special permit thing for us I think is a little bit different especially for the new US newbies but it was kind of hard to just focus on the land use with the special permit because of all of the other stuff that was involved with it so I am glad this is going to councel and let them make that decision agreed commission Forge I only want to say I appreciate all my fellow Commissioners and the way we handled that uh difficult matter and especially you Mr chair but everybody but especially the way you kept that civil and thank you thank you and I I agree with you commissioner Noble that the special permit is just really difficult because our Authority is difficult understanding it I wish that there was a better sometimes it's like we wish we had more time but of course you want to give citizens a chance to be heard it's just it's really challenging um on issues like this and so maybe that's something we can continue to work with the city council on is ways in which we can have a more productive discussion about the land use even as it's getting ready to come to uh to Planning Commission and you know I always say this because commissioner Powers taught me this early there's a lot there's a great benefit to good Community engagement and conversations before it gets here and I think that's how we end up with a better product and and this is an example of something that I think fits perfectly into that criteria is we would have benefited from a more robust public conversation I understand that there are time constraints outside of our control but I think it would have been a better product that way yeah but appreciate you all and even the the professionals giving us better information even for us to make decisions on from here and I want to say something also about a specific a specific plan for the fin yeah so that it's not a specific plan we can't make them do that is that what the case is I'm looking at you Sarah it's just that there's no it there's no process for it typically a specific plan well a specific plan is part of a a PUD process and so there's yeah there's an application for it and and all that but couldn't we just steer them to a PUD then when they came back the size of the of the track is what governs that distinction and it's not a very good way to do it frankly because you know clearly even though this was less than five acres the you know uh effect of the decision was fairly enormous so you know yeah it was five acres tall yeah and that that was kind of my point is I think this is if if this moves forward and everything is built as it's built it's going to be the largest investment in Oklahoma City history probably and we have very little controls in place there's no specific plan you know once it leaves here with the exception of the signage now it you know it's kind of up to them to to steer something that's really going to have a major impact in Oklahoma City so well and I think it does it's it's a hole in in the code that I think we need to in our process that I think we need to address um because I I we want investment like this we also want it to be responsible and we want to be able to be responsive to the concerns of our citizens and so making sure we have the right legislative tools to do it is really important and so I'm I really appreciate the effort I know that was made from staff to try to I mean it was literally a scramble when I tell you all they solved this problem in 30 minutes that was a ser serious problem um I'm glad we did it especially with the national attention that that this city has gained because of this hate to be the city that says no to an investment like that but we also want to be a city that says no to gigantic Billboards on the biggest building in the United States so um it's it's it's a tough thing to do so appreciate you all planning department um just thank you Commissioners me and powers for attending the vision zero uh meeting that's going to move quickly so we're excited about that and and and and really bringing lots of additional uh tools and money to making driving walking biking riding Transit safer in the city so it's great we'll keep you guys we'll keep you posted we gotten a recruit today during the presentation the gentleman who had been involved with the RTA I was thinking you was see put this guy to [Laughter] work that's a good point um municipal council's office not enough work for you today I think it was a lot we have no one signed up for citizens to be heard seeing as we reached the end of our business