all right it's 1:30 I like to call the meeting of the traffic and Transportation Commission for 19 January 2024 to order we'll start with roll call commissioner Barnell here commissioner Littlefield here commissioner long here commissioner hail here sir commissioner shuine is not available commissioner W is not available go to commissioner George yeah and commissioner cornet here all right then we go now to uh item two approval of the minutes of the traffic and Transportation Commission meeting for December 18th 20123 do we have a motion motion to approve motion from commissioner hail do we have a second okay we have a second from commissioner long any discussion okay motion to approve from commissioner hail seconded by commissioner long and our computer system is running slow you might have seen when you logged in all right we're GNA wait here to see what happens there we go it's starting stinking long here we go and your votes everybody up okay I know the systems counting there we go four in favor one abstained we need is a couple more yeah I know we have a couple more coming commission hell what did you do oh yeah it didn't pop up for you yet no okay well just give a verbal commissioner long and then I just got p on okay and then hail approve okay there we go item has passed six in favor one abstained very good okay uh we go now to item three reports from traffic Services Division and the counselor's office all right you've got a series of reports before you this month um we have our standing report on on commission approved traffic signals awaiting Public Funding there have been no change in status on any of those in the past couple reports um as as far as the uh ASAP program status goes you can see that we've got a number of speed cushions which have been installed we have got uh a couple more coming we're we've looking at um we're waiting on receipt of cushions to install on Northwest 59th Street between Villa and rivy area and then we've also got cushions on order for Southwest 15th Street between Douglas and McKinley and that's in the vicinity of uh Gateway Elementary School which was a a case from a couple meetings back and then we have a couple cushions coming that are on order that are going to be on Northwest Fifth Street between Prairie Hill Lane in clementine Road and that one's quite a bit to the west of here um we've got two driver speed feedback signs which are currently on order and as of today's date um we have expended 28,00 755 of the original city council $50,000 matching fund allocations so we've got REM remaining balance of $2,245 um at the end of the December meeting commissioner Littlefield had a question about debris removal from protected bicycle lanes and specifically he was asking whether these lanes were cleared in response to Citizen reports or if they're swept on a scheduled basis this was this turned into a very interesting um exercise because in speaking with the assistant Public Works director Debbie Miller I've learned that the city has got a three-person crew and they will uh hand sweep bicycle Lanes in between regular sweepings that are done by the city's Solid Waste division Solid Waste Management division of the utilities department um there is a map that's available also that shows um bicycle lanes that are swept on a weekly basis as part of regular swe street sweeping operations and those which are swept on a monthly basis there are uh still a handful of lanes which are not included in sweeping at this point in time um but I another bit of information I found was that um in in December of 2021 the city city council did authorize additional funding to uh to a company called Professional Services or unit um unlimited sweepers and cleaners and that expanded their contract to include uh bicycle lane sweeping and then finally I've got a report for you on I believe that's just the administrative stops and or administrative yield signs that we take care of pretty much on a monthly basis and got any other questions on any reports I'd be happy to discuss them with you no very good wasn't aware that sweeping the streets was such an organized thing and it was being handled and and then they hit the bike Lanes even before Rob was able to think about it well it I mean it was it was a very good question because you know because Public Works got a small crew that handles you know repair they replace delineator posts and things like that but um they will take care of some hand sweeping and but as the city gets more bicycle Lanes installed sweeping operations are going to become basically a bigger part in the I'm sure there'll be additional costs in the future for the city to have you know its contracts its contractors that take care swe street sweeping pick up bicycle Lanes very good thank you for taking the time very welcome okay uh counselor's office do you have anything ma'am no all right thank you uh I'm going to ask the captain uh as you all know he's new to us about six months or so and they assigned him to us because he's traffic they opened up a new section if you want to call it in in the local uh law enforcement and he's in charge of that and so they said well great you're in charge of traffic go to traffic meeting but if you noticed on the city's Facebook page there's been at least two that I've seen where some of his people are out there doing some work and the city has reported on it so I thought it'd be great to just have the captain uh address us with what is it why why was that started and what do they do and is it working or what would be the thing to say that it would work in the future so Captain all right uh first question why have we made a change uh I think number one it's probably an Innovative Spirit from Chief gorley he's always looking to make a change and make things better um if you look at the resident survey which drives a lot of how we do business um traffic enforcement has always been a high item for opportunity and so the police department is responding to that and uh we're going to try and direct traffic enforcement to a data responsive approach uh in the past we've been more reactive to certain complaints or resident concerns as they come to us but I believe that the police department can look at the data the Collision data uh how many of those are fatalities how many of those are injuries how many of them are accidents and that that don't involve injuries and then also look at causation is it turning movements how many times is speed involved is occupant restraints a significant contributing factor and instead of just responding to what an individual person might anecdotally think is a traffic problem we can look at the number of accidents and the causations and then send our enforcement arm the motors officers to those locations and specifically address turning movements and we can tell them hey this location has a high incidence of accidents resulting from turning movement mistakes uh this is just a small part of our overall change that we've made number one the pio's office has done a great job of putting this information out and I I think it um is really a benefit to them I I really am glad that we're getting some public education happening from it so we want to do education enforcement and evaluation um a little bit I I think me being here and hearing the concerns of this traffic commission helped me in the evaluation part of it and I want to help other departments use our information what we're doing to enforce uh to make traffic safer for everybody um I'm I'm fully signed on to the vision zero in initiative that we're trying to get no collisions so that leads me to the next question you had is how will we know this is working and what what are we looking for as a goal I really think that if we can demonstrate that collisions reduce because of these initiatives then I'll call that a win it may take some some time and we're going to evaluate the data we we've actually um made some investments into how we're going to look at the data and Personnel that are going to be looking at that data and helping the Police Department direct their activities so uh that's it in a nutshell sorry I went a little long I'm I'm very excited about it so we're just going to keep keep pushing forward if there's any any suggestions you have please let me know we've we've actually called it it's a new unit called the traffic safety unit so it's a reorganization thank you well and what why don't you give one example of data showed a problem you analyzed it and you came up with a a plan and then your people went out and did a plan do you have one one site or ex I do um yeah the very first one that we did we chose Northwest Expressway um no question high volume of accidents there and when we take motorcycles out there we have an opportunity working as a team to enforce certain regulations that you can't very well enforce as a single person so for example as a motorcycle can sit across the intersection they can see that signal light and watch the violation occur but then in a much safer way radio to another officer who can make the stop happen and then issue the citation it helps us get a larger volume of those violations addressed but it's also safer um working as one motorcycle officer or one one patrolman you just you can't you can't see the violation and get behind the car when the traffic is so congested so we're working as a team we're doing saturation events very low tolerance it's not Zero Tolerance because everybody has a story and and we're compassionate to but uh very low tolerance we're definitely addressing the violations as we see them we're working together as a team we're building up a team um so I see great things for the future and this is what we're trying to accomplish all right anybody have any comments or questions all right thank you for your time C you're welcome okay there are no items on the consent docket so we go to item 5A Kelly porch uh Northbound left turn item number one and then another eastbound left term item number two and they're up on your screen so you can see them and do we have Kelly here ma'am if you'd like to come up if I could have your name and address and you'll have up to minutes okay it's Kelly porch it's 14400 Wilson Road um I appreciate your time um we obviously live very close to um Western and Memorial and we travel that daily um Starbucks has moved in on that um corner where we're talking about and the problem is the left turn into Starbucks heading north and then when they're leaving Starbucks again turning left going north um the there's multiple problems that we're seeing one is the traffic is backing up into the intersection constantly um my husband and I are notorious for just laying on our horn when someone's trying to turn because there's so many cars backed up um and then when they're darting out in front of three lanes of traffic to turn and go north again um just a little bit further north from Starbucks is another Drive um where our son actually was turning North and um and was in an accident and we've repeatedly told him don't turn left on Western it's a bad idea you need to drive all the way around the block so we um with the help of some neighbors um did not know that this was an Avenue for us to even be here honestly um with the help of a lot of you and I appreciate everyone's help and helping me navigate this we drafted our petition and I have a lot of neighbors acknowledging that this is a problem um I guess the report which we just read that there have been 81 incidents car car wck um in 2023 I I don't know what that means I don't I know if that's a little or a lot to me that seems significant especially when we have three of our four children are driving um so we are asking to put a no left turn going into and out of um I requested the dividers I know they're over at Costco and I was told that people just run them over but I feel like the Bad actors that run them over I mean we have to do something to stop the people that are willing to follow the the law and the rules that say Hey don't turn here it's not safe I feel like enough people may follow those rules and not want to scratch their car and run over these barriers we see them at Costco we see some are bent um but it does seem to have improved people leaving Costco trying to get onto the turnpike so I do feel like I don't know if you put a no turn where it's indicated now um on that right hand side I don't know that these the drivers are going to see that when they're trying to turn into Starbucks so that's why the dividers seem like a better option and maybe we'll I think people frequent this Starbucks enough that they'll recognize oh we can't turn there we need to figure out an alternate route but the accidents mainly in my opinion are occurring in the intersection because of people trying to get in um and as you know people like their Starbucks all hours of the day day so this is not a morning issue it is when I'm picking my kids up from school when I'm driving them to school um weekends so we are asking for the no turn signal and the um plastic dividers to prevent that prevent them from turning all right thank you very much manam thank you I appreciate your time uhuh anybody else want to speak on this item all right staff all right you got our comments before you you can see that Miss porch has requested a left turn restriction that would prohibit Northbound left turns from Western Avenue into that Starbucks driveway on Western Avenue and likewise uh prohibit left turns out from that driveway um with respect to Collision information um with assistance from our Police Department's Partners they they have provided us information that from January 1st of 2023 through December 5th they received 81 calls reporting crashes of and from those 81 calls 51 crash reports were filed and this was for in the immediate vicinity of the western Memorial intersection um of the of the 51 reports there were seven that were act that were tied to the drive the Starbucks driveway that's on Memorial Road itself uh later in your in the report you'll see that there's kind of a breakdown on page four discussing the types of accidents uh one recurring theme that we noted was that um driver courtesy in which one driver would wave to another to let them know that there's a break in traffic that contributed to uh four of the seven collisions that were ultimately reported at the intersection of the of the seven that occurred five of them were from Northbound vehicles that were on Western turning in and the remaining two were for uh exiting Vehicles making left turns out of the Starbucks driveway uh one thing that we did note when we conducted our site investigation is that for drivers that are exiting exiting the Starbucks driveway the view to the South um towards Memorial Road is often obstructed uh there Memorial Road is is higher than this driveway and it also drops off it becomes lower on the south side of um or Western becomes lower on the south side of Memorial Road and that kind of reduces the a uh an exiting driver's view of Northbound or approaching traffic and matter fact on the image that's up on the screen right now the the lower image shows a uh shows a view of Western Avenue from a driver's perspective looking to the south on Western Avenue and you can see that there's a waste management collection vehicle on an SUV in the left turn lane and if you look carefully there's that's the opportunity you have to see at approaching Northbound vehicle on Western Avenue aside from that like I said we've got there were 51 calls for service in this vicinity seven were related to the intersection five are related to left turns in from Memorial Road and two related for to left turns out and action on the item will be at the discretion of the commission I'm happy to answer any other questions you might have relative to the application all right thank you very much do we have a motion concerning 5A I'd like to move for approval okay we have a motion to approve from commissioner Cor n do we have a second a second second by commissioner hail do we have any discussion yes sir she mentioned I'll turn on my mic she mentioned putting up the post the linear post is that something we actually do she's she's talking about the Costco I think the Turnpike Authority probably put those up so is that something we would even entertain while it is an option to put up uh delineator posts our long-term experience with them especially in a situation like this where they would have to be set up along the center line is that um they will probably not survive very long and they will become a maintenance issue for us uh one thing that you know the reason why we can speak to that is because in the past we used to have um pedestrian warning signs on Broadway Avenue and they were put up there to uh you know just they were set up on the center line they were there to warn drivers that there were you know there was a fair amount of pedestrian activity Crossing Broadway and those signs were continuously hit to the point where they became it was just no longer economically feasible to keep replacing them so in the case of the Costco driveway those were put up and the intent there was to prohibit the mo most courageous drivers from trying to make a dash straight across Memorial Road and to try and get onto a a Turnpike onramp uh those have had Fairly good survivability uh the ones that would be on on Western Avenue here they would probably become a chronic maintenance issue for us and the delineator posts by themselves are not a turn restriction the only thing that makes a turn restriction um enforcable is by you know this commission authorizing the restriction and US posting signs in addition if we were just to post signs for like the Northbound left turn restriction we would probably post something adjacent to the driveway that would also face drivers that say they did not see the sign on their right that indicated there no left turn we'd probably post something additional next to the driveway that would remind them that they can't make the left turn in at that point and then I've also seen right in in the on the road no left turn as I mean i' i' I've seen that at different places that would probably work in a in a condition where you've got pretty regular free flow traffic but um in the vicinity of the western Memorial intersection it's fairly congested and that would be that would be tough for a lot of drivers to see okay besides that in the in conditions where the pavement is wet or there's snow or something like that on the ground you know s signs are actually a better alternative because they're not they are not subject to being uded by someone sitting over them or being worn out right so so if this was approved you put the sign edge up and like you said you would modify with maybe some in the left lane so they see it on the left side and then uh after months if there was nobody following that rule uh we would of course send out law enforcement to help modify their uh actions but then eventually the applicant would see that after six months or a year and say this isn't working she could call you up and say hey I we need some help or or something of that nature something more than just we could explore other options at that point in time right that's all I'm saying ma'am is if after time you see that the signage itself is not working you've seen some uh bikes out there helping but it's still not working then you would get a hold of the city and and say okay we we might need some other option okay good thank you okay anybody else on 5A okay we have a motion to I just had a quick question staff um was was there any feedback from Starbucks themselves since they're it's kind of you know putting a small damper probably not really any at all in the long term but um you know restricting their business somewhat there is on uh on page 11 of your report there's a a drawing that shows how access to that rest to that particular store will change um their access on Memorial moral road is right in right out because Memorial Road is westbound one way because of you know it acts as a frontage road around the Kil Patrick Turnpike um I did contact and speak with the store manager for the Starbucks um they were advised that this meet this item was going to be heard today and I also when I was when I stopped in there to to speak to her she was not in so i' I've only spoken to her over the phone I did pick up a uh a business card for the district manager and so I did and that had an email address so I so I've contacted district manager for for this Starbucks area and the store manager so they're they're both aware that this meeting was being held today to discuss you know a requested access change all right any other talk on 5A okay we have a motion to approve from commissioner cornet seconded by commissioner H and ready to vote and you need commissioner hail verbal okay item has approved with all seven in favor right thank you man uh I'd like to uh move item 5 C up next because it deals with left turn so if everybody's okay with that we'll move up and go to now item 5c okay item 5c uh stui our traffic engineer to consider recommendation to the council about uh turnning movements and amending all right thank you um actually the Genesis for this item was um was discussion that was held at the end of the commission's November 20th meeting as a matter of fact it was uh a lot of it was started in discussions around this particular starbu driveway um one of the one of the things that we as staff have kind have um had to contend with in the past is when we get a request for a turn restriction a lot of times a turn restrictions are necessary because they're related to either in insufficient decision site distance they may be related to signal control they may be related to Bicycle facilities any any number of things and for the most part those turn restrictions are something that would be um something that could be effectively and efficiently handled at the administrative level as opposed to the commission hearing level which necessitates a report and then it also means that we take it to you know the meeting that we can the nearest meeting that we can get it to with respect to how much difference this may make um we did pull a turn restriction activity over the past five years from 2019 through 2023 and in that in that 5-year period the commission considered 15 turn restrictions six of the turn restrictions were were related to schools where they were wanting to either prohibit access into a driveway prohibit egress from a driveway just to promote movement around the school and then the others were atow locations where we had issues with um well things things like a turn turn restriction into a business driveway or there could have been issues where there was insufficient sight distance at a particular intersection so effectively speaking this doesn't this will not necessarily change what the commission does because commissioner hail was concerned that if we if this was transferred from a public hearing process to an administrator process there would be uh no opportunity for someone that might be affected or grieved by a turn restriction to have their you know to have their request heard by the commission so in the ordinance that you've got before you there's a new subsection added under 32- 237 which is section e which reads uh any person directly affected by a turn restriction authorized by the director or designate May request a hearing with the commission being this body to change or remove administratively enacted turn restrictions so there's there is always recourse and if there is uh if there's someone that is that is thinks that the turn restriction is unwarranted unjustified or has any other issues with it they've got this commission to come back to so they always there's always that opportunity but in all the all the turn restriction cases that have been acted enacted over the years we've never had any appealed and for the most part those have just been at the discretion of the commission so I'm happy to answer any of the questions that you might have about this draft ordinance I have a question for you steuart sorry um on the on the one we just heard if this was already passed would you have proved it that's a hypothetical question this no it's actually [Laughter] not that would be an item that we would probably we would discuss in depth with store operators now that's why with the help of uh Captain FR Frederickson not only did we pull crash information for the location he he was able to provide us with uh crash reports and from that we were able to drill down and find out what where the primary issues were like I said there were two crashes that were related Rel ated to left turns out there was one Northbound and there were five that were related to turns in if anything we may have taken a more measured approach and just restricted the Northbound left turns in because they do impact okay free flowing traffic on Western yeah but two crashes at a driveway for exiting Maneuvers with with 20,000 cars a day or whatever it is that is that would be something that we could we could watch afterwards we would initiate the one that would probably take care of the the more significant safety aspect and then we would follow on follow up and look at the other one I like that answer thank you all right it may have already been answered but I I got I got to wrap it around my head it I'm going to give you an example uh they're at Grand Boulevard and Northwestern Avenue this was years ago is in very close proximity to Northwest 56 Street and Western Avenue and it's a contorted intersection it's really bizarre constant flow of traffic no matter who had what red light or who had what green light and what the neighborhood requested at the time was a no right on red southbound from Grand Boulevard onto Western Avenue and I will tell you it works it's effective so with with this which I support um in a case like that where a neighborhood requested something like that would would you go out and look at it and make a determin for yourselves whether or not this is could you say to the neighborhood no because it's not warranted I think is my question and yeah absolutely because in the event that um something like this was appealed or challenged we would have everything we would need right up front in order to prepare a case to go on to the commission because we would we would always do our due diligence to determine whether or not that this is something that is warranted or maybe ultimately be beneficial for traffic flow and safety if you if you discovered it was not warranted it would automatically become an item before the commission was that what you were saying no no no how would the neighborhood go about pursuing that well if they if they were um we would allow them to have a case heard before the commission there you go thank you yeah that works for me okay would it be possible would it be possible on item e to put that any person Direct affected by turn restriction or lack of because if I call you and say hey this is really a problem like on Grand Boulevard and Northwestern and you say we're just not going to mess with it they need to know that they do have the right of appeal whether it's in favor of or it's denied all right well like the verbage of directly affected by would cover both I'm lawyer but if they're affected or I I see where commissioner hail is coming from um authorized authorized or or not authorized well you could it or it could be the turn authorized could be uh think about this any person directly affected by a turn restriction decision there go be in FA which would be for it or not for it right I mean well okay we we can write if if that's commission's preference we can we can easily make that change I don't want three years from now to where somebody just says no I just we decided on this and they answerers no we're not going to put it up and they feel like they have no place to go because the way this reads is this is something the city has installed right and if you don't like it you can appeal but if it if the city says no we're not going to to authorize that they still need the right to appeal it yeah okay good call all right so so then so I would suppose at this point in time if the commission wanted to P you know press on with this particular ordinance change they would be looking at making an amendment to part e which would replace the word authorized with the word decision so it read any person directly affected by turn restriction decision by the director designate May request a hearing with the commission right so the motion would just have to say that correct okay got it okay motion almost anybody else have any comments on 5c well we don't even we haven't even made a motion yet we're just asking questions it we just talk all right let's have a motion Mr chairman I'd like to make an uh motion to approve with the changes to item e to designate that it is any decision made by the director or designate instead of the C Uh current wording okay do we have a second i' like to second second by commissioner cornette all right any discussion okay are we good on the motion ma'am okay all right so we have a motion from commissioner Hil uh as modified sub Point e and seconded by commissioner cornette and as soon as here we are we're ready to rock approve approve all right item is approved with all seven in favor okay now we go back to item five b again stuent chai traffic engineer uh talking about parking angle parking is the item we'll wait till it comes up on the screen it comes there's the item on the screen that we're talking about and staff all right all right um the commission last saw the draft of the actual physical standards for on Street angle parking at its meeting January 22nd of 20121 the commiss the commission was satisfied with the basic standards that were set for the physical characteristics for angle and parallel on street parking uh since that time um we've working with our partners over at Embark and with O and for the direction of our Public Works director what has changed the only thing that's really changed between 2021 and today is that um there are now some additional amendments to in the draft ordinance which will describe conditions when on Street angle parking and parallel parking can and cannot be allowed because it was it was determined that it is one thing to set a standard for it that but it was also necessary as part of the ordinance to uh to set guidelines when angle parking shouldn't should not be allowed so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to run through this ordinance briefly with you and and then hopefully answer any questions you might have so with respect to the on Street angle parkings in the the amendments to chapter 32 there are three amendments proposed to section 32 296 uh the first one adds juneth to the list of holidays the reason why that's being done is because um parking restrictions a lot and in particular um metered parking is is not enforced on City recognized holidays and with juneth being added to this to the city's calendar of recognized holidays by the city council it was appropriate to add that date in uh the Second Amendment we have adds a definition for maneuvering depth which was described in detail when we first presented this item back in January of 2021 and the third amendment is was done written in conjunction with uh our transportation Partners over at Embark and uh there they made a constant reference to something that was called a street car safety envelope and this part so not being defined anywhere in the municipal code it was necessary to develop a term for it because there are there are times when especially in parallel parking in the downtown area uh they want to have a wider parallel parking standard than the St the city's current 8 foot wide standard and the reason for that is that the street car operator needs to make sure that they can freely pass by vehicle and a lot of times there you know even when we presented this back in 2021 we had um pictures in that particular staff report that would show like a Wells Fargo um armored car that was working in the downtown area but because it was such a wide vehicle and it couldn't entirely fit in the space it actually parked with two wheels up on the curb and on the sidewalk so in a recognition of conditions like that that is why Embark was very interested in having um parallel parking spaces well future parallel parking spaces the downtown area adjacent to the street car tracks themselves go from an 8ft wide standard to an 11t um so in section 32303 we've got the minimum standards for um the width the Angles and the perpendicular depths for on Street angle parking spaces and we also H also set the conditions under which angle parking could be allowed uh those will appear in in sections in subsections C and CD and E in section 32303 so just just to summarize as far as angle parking angle we've currently as structure the the ordinance read angle parking shall not be permitted on a public road way when any of the following conditions exist so the regulatory speed limit is greater than 35 miles an hour so at so any road that's posted 40 or higher won't be eligible for an angle Park that does not currently we don't have any angle parking on streets where this is an issue uh it won't won't be allowed in the average daily traffic volumes equal to or greater than 15,000 vehicles per day that would that would be a substantially busy road and probably not one on which angle parking would do well and we won't allow and the way the ordinance will be written uh it won't be allowed on roadways that are classified or other otherwise functions as highways or expressways Frontage roads or Service Roads so you know if we were to re if the commission was to receive a request for angle parking on a roadway such as Northwest Expressway it wouldn't go any further than the request phase it wouldn't because the roadway the speed limit would be too high the ADT would be too high and the roadways classification would be incompatible with our standards and aside from that um there is there is a caveat with respect to maneuvering depth maneuvering depth is a Desir depth in order for people go entering and exiting angle parking spaces and it's the intent is so that they do not interfere with adjacent Lanes of traffic whether it's on a two-lane road if the maneuvering requires you to Across the center line to make it into a parking space that would be a condition that we IDE that under most cases we would want to avoid however on in the case of low volume roads low volume low speeds or roadways having three or more Lanes maneuvering depth could become could be an optional consideration and the reason being is because we have got we have had a number of cases over the years where we've had requests for on Street angle parking on two lane roads and I mean I can just give you a few example um there's a Northwest 67th and 68th Street over in the Chesapeake campus area we've had requests for um and it's been approved to have 90 degree angle parking well because it's on a two-lane road and and maneuvering depths for 90 degree movements typically require more than half the roadway allowing that type of parking on a low volume road is really is really not much different than the maneuvering that you would do from your own driveway when you're entering your own your own neighborhood street so if if it's a low volume low speed Road chances are angle parking on a facility like that won't present any operational problems now if it was on if it was on like a four-lane roadway we would want maneuvering depth becomes important because it's one thing to affect the lane that you're backing into but it's another thing to affect the adjacent Lane that may also be moving in the same direction that you're backing into so that's why maneuvering depth is required when you get to roadways that have that are like four lanes wide and wider and other than that the um the tables and the basic standards for angle parking are the same as they were when they were last presented to the Commission in January of 2021 and the intent of the ordinance at this point is to CAU a requirements which will then allow um future developers and bu and Builders to be able to take a look at our codes and if they're considering angle parking they'll be able to look they'll be able to already basically make a determination on their own whether or not they can even pursue it so and if they know they can pursue it then they'll know that they've got uh sidewalk requirements that they'll need to make and they'll know that they might be there might be additional RightWay needed to build the sidewalk in and for us to be able to post regulatory signs outside the sidewalk limits so really it's a good development tool for Builders and developers to have handy because right now they don't really there's no standards they can they can they can latch their hands on there's there's nothing that's codified and this right here is a product of must be dozens of traffic emission reports that we've been doing ever since about 2013 when when that when that's when the real interest in getting uh on Street angle parking was was really coming up prior to that there's very little in the way of application of activity but since 2013 be it's become a lot more popular and so this will allow others that are looking at it to know whether or not the roadways the roadways where they're looking at putting it in if they've got enough room to do it and and if so what what the city's requireing IR Ms are going to be on them to get it done I'm happy to answer any questions you might have on the draft ordinance yes sir excellent work uh do do the maneuvering depths that you calculated and stall widths I'm sure uh accommodate reverse angle parking as well or would that be a different formula they do not because we've our our experience with reverse angle parking is extremely limited matter of fact aside from Northwest 39th Street there are some spaces that I think have been constructed on Northeast Fourth Street but have not been open yet uh those are built to a Tulsa standard for reverse angle parking in as much as instead of the spaces being 9 ft wide they're going to be constructed so they are 11 ft wide so we really don't have that experience yet um on we have I can give show you some information that might be helpful in that Vein on page 27 of the uh January 2020 January 2021 report overshot there we go we've got a p the lower image before you is a a UPS truck now granted they reverse angle parked in what is a traditional head in angle parking space but you can see that the there are differences between head in angle parking and reverse angle parking because for a vehic a delivery vehicle such as a truck like that it's got a significantly greater rear bumper overhang and right now the way the codes are structured with head in angle parking uh a five at minimum a five foot wide sidewalk is required adjacent to the across the head of the parking spaces you know in the particular case of this bu of this vehicle right here its bumper overhang is even wider than the minimum sidewalk we require so now granted it happened to be in a location where there was still additional sidewalk back behind it but in some cases there might there might be situations where her sidewalks might be impassible especially to uh you know people in Mobility chairs or other such things so standards for reverse angle parking would be different than for head in parking so as we move forward in the future and and say that there's a possibility that reverse angle parking becomes much more common place it it could always an amendment could be added to this that would that at that time the study is made and in those cases it's a different they're different maneuvering depths for reverse angle parking exactly and there may be different sidewalk requirements okay thank you very much I had a quick question about the highway designation do we have very many state highways that are designated that are on Lower speed streets so I'm even thinking is Britain Road considered I don't believe Britain Road any portion of Britain Road is on the highway system I know that um you know there are there are several roads that run through the city that bear State Highway designations like Northeast 23rd Street is State Highway 62 um a lot of Northwest Expressway used to be State Highway 3 and it's basically been removed from the state highway system it's now only on the the state highway system from the Kilpatrick Turnpike off to the West um there is State Highway 4 which runs up through like Mustang Road pedmont in that area um so there are there and there's State Highway 152 but as far as state highways having lower speed limits no well I maybe I take that back maybe the only route that might possibly have a lower limit might be but it wouldn't be in Oklahoma City it would be actually be um us66 as it passes through Bethany Beth yeah and they do have some you know Bethany's got some old um angle parking in the in the vicinity of Southern nazarine University but I believe the speed limit on that section through Bethany's I think it's 35 just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking something that that that specific verbage would negate being able to create Like a downtown community feel in an area that I'm just not right thinking of um well my my uh point is uh angle parking is it more dangerous than parallel parking is that why we're treating it totally different than parallel parking I mean I I just when you think angle parking it's safer and it's better when you just think of the concept you pull in and you pull out compared to try to three three Square in well I I suppose it depends on the type of vehicle you drive I mean if you drove a drove a smart car like some members of my staff do uh they can Pro practically back into a parallel parking space and still remain within the parking limits um you know on on street parking on street parking is a necessity you get into residential areas it's really pretty much a necessity um when you get into downtown business districts it's a necessity the uh the amount of land that you can dedicate towards angle parking becomes kind of well will the amount of land that you can dedicate to parking dictates the type of parking that you can fit in I mean right now uh sections of Broadway Avenue where that used to have parallel parking on them they've they were uh that's when Broadway was like a four lane roadway maybe five Lanes in places and and it allowed for parallel parking in locations but changing over to angle parking has come at basically the expense of having to convert a travel Lane for use for angle parking so there's a there there's a trade-off there's it's well there's a trade-off because of the land space and and can you physically do it but if you had a choice what's better parallel or angle probably I would say for most drivers angle parking is probably an easier thing to do than parallel necessarily um from an efficiency standpoint um you can get more Vehicles parked along the same length of curb if you park at an angle as opposed to if you park parallel okay but uh for a traffic situation a road is it better to have angle parking or parallel for traffic flow that's really a good question because a lot of times where you see angle parking it's typically in a more in like a business district downtown or Entertainment District or something like that and so as far as the flow is not I don't think is affected that much by angle parking because a lot of times drivers in those areas either they're they're finished with their business and they're leaving or they're arriving and they're probably looking for a parking space so I would I would not think that um that angle parking presents any particular issues in areas where parking is kind of at a premium or you know parking is close to your destination is important I think most drivers are willing to um just to to to Be watchful for for spaces because chances are a lot of them are looking for spaces okay very good all right any other talk on item 5B well we need to have a motion first before we have any more talk do we have a motion for item 5B for approval we have a motion to approve from commissioner Littlefield second by commissioner hail and now any final talk before we vote okay we have a motion to approve from commissioner Littlefield second by commissioner hail votes two verbal approvals approve my while we're waiting for the votes to come I just want to remind the commission that that angle parking request will still be subject to commission hearing the only thing that won't be subject to the commission that the commission will have to uh to contend with will be um changes that uh developers or others want to the parking standards there is there is a provision in the ordinance for the director to provide a slight variance to the uh The Depths for angle parking spaces but as far as the other conditions they remain the same but the commission still does hear all requests they just don't have to contend with requests for certain you know different sizes of angle parking spaces right okay item has passed with all seven in favor okay we go now to item six comments from citizens nothing nothing from planning today you sure you don't want all right okay item seven reports from traffic Commissioners and committees go to commissioner bar now none for me m Littlefield unfortunately I do I this is for our captain there have been some a small handful of citizens approached me about uh in operable Vehicles parked on neighborhood streets or or Vehicles o operable or not that sit on neighborhood streets for weeks and never move uh there's there's one in particular that is a a situation where it's a construction trailer that's like 27 ft long that comes every single night and stays there all night and then leaves early in the morning and and the the final one are some cases where there are commercial vehicles that the person that lives at the property owns and they're bringing them home at night and they're parking them on the street and the the challenge that these neighbors have expressed to me is first of all we're not sure who to call on that and I was sort of always under the impression that that isn't a zoning issue it's a police matter because it's public streets and the comments that I've gotten from some of these folks are they're calling the police and they're making reports on these especially challenging are the ones that are like it's 9:00 at night on a Friday night and here's this construction trailer and and they're taxing the officer's time you know to come out there on a Friday night or a Saturday night to to investigate this when good Lord knows what else is going on that they should be attending to that's far more important and and the feeling is is that they're not really getting anywhere with this and um I'd like to be able to to get back with these people and share with them what is the process is I can understand the action center on vehicles that just sit on the street for days and days I I could understand that because an officer can certainly look at that during the day but the commercial vehicle being parked in residential neighborhoods and trailers being parked in residential neighborhoods is more Pro problematic because the problems at night what do you know about that all right well uh first of all uh I feel your your comment has has a a feeling of futility right our residents are calling and they feel like they're not getting the response corre then they don't really know how to where to turn after that and I take this very personally because I want our Police Department to be responsive to people's concerns no matter what they are and I I know that people feel like well maybe my concern is not as important it doesn't matter if you're not getting the response from a police officer that you need that police officer has a supervisor and you and any Resident can always ask for a supervisor so anytime that I hear a resident concern that has this uh feeling of futility that's what I like to say is that your concern is important we're not going to dismiss it no matter how busy we are it may take time for us to get to it but we will not dismiss your concerns okay so that's that's just a side that's something I take personally um as far as far as Dar Vehicles go and street parking we have regulations for that they are enforcable we actually have a police officer in our new traffic safety unit his name is Sergeant swear Engen I know he's watching the commission report because he does like he does like to watch the city government happen so hi Sergeant swear engine um this police Sergeant is assigned specific specifically to the action center and derel vehicles he's our derel vehicle officer so he's a great resource to the commission all our residents um he has worked in this capacity for a number of years does not get complaints because he has what we were talking about before compassion he deals with people he deals with their issues and he tries to get to the root cause of it so um he's just the right person for that job and I can get you in touch with him I can provide his number but he primarily Works off the action center and then concerns from residents that you can you can uh contact through the traffic safety unit so um I'd be happy to help with that in any way as far as it being late at night um you know if it's if it's a parking regulation that needs to be addressed we can Rite a ticket on that no matter there are times sometimes in the parking regulations and we're happy to address that um my recommendation would be if you're not getting the police response you want get a hold of a supervisor and that supervisor should help it get addressed at the earliest available time so to to to contact a supervisor like it's 9:00 at night and the officer is there and the officer is is U why is this bothering you and you know asking questions like that and not willing to write a citation do does does the citizen how does the citizen go about from that officer finding out who they supervisor is or do they need to wait till the next day or no not at all it's super simple if if there's a police officer working he has a he is he or she is being supervised by a supervisor so you just call 911 again and say hey I I'm here and this officer has not addressed my problem I'd like to talk to a supervisor that will probably get a phone call from the supervisor but hopefully we want to mediate these things um the supervisor may be able to help the resident understand how busy they are what really is going going on um it could be that maybe this parked vehicle is not in violation um you know these are things the officers will know I very much appreciate what I'm hearing it's to some listeners it may sound like Petty complaints but uh where where these comments are coming from are a couple of neighborhoods where uh Auto Breakin uh incidents are just rampant and and the reason for that in my view isn't necess necessarily because these cars are illegally parked on the street it's because of the Aesthetics you know when when they're when they're municipal code violations in neighborhoods that are rampant it tends to attract more crime than it does when neighborhoods are more compliant so neighborhoods that need this help thank you this is great for me to share and I would definitely like to visit with um with him thank you I'll just add something else to that um most of the city's parking regulations are covered in section 32304 however um within subdivisions and other areas zoning regulations in chapter 59 also has prohibitions that would prohibit uh parking trailers over overnight in residential streets commercial vehicles watercraft and other such things even recreational vehicles and they're you know the City municipal code is is a very large publication and so there there's a lot of things related to parking regulations that are buried in all different sections so it's it's a challenging job to know to keep tabs on every possible form of violation that there might be all right very good over to commissioner long I don't have anything to add okay commissioner Hil nothing to add sir commissioner George No thank you commissioner coret all set all set all right all right uh counselor anything else thanks for sitting in today appreciate it okay Captain anything else yes sir I just want to report on some extra patrols that were requested um Memorial and Harvey the school the nice people came and asked about getting a signal light I've sent motor officers up there uh they did observe some violations and and address them but in the and then I had them follow up in the week of January 8th because school was back in and they wrote 10 hazardous citations two non-hazardous they made some warnings as well um the supervisor that addressed it just kind of he said it's a real concern and Memorial is difficult hopefully that signal light that's going in will make a big difference so if you want any more study real time from the officers on that please let me know um 18th and Harvey those four-way stops went in the motorcycle officers report that it has uh created the desired effect effect and they made no contacts no no citations to issue there and then the other one was Hill Elementary um we put up some traffic control devices at 16th in Sterling the officers went there and um they made some contacts and cited some people who violated those so that's already gaining its desired effect and I just want to report on that very good thank you for the for reports and the work that you uh you and your people are doing out there thank you okay uh staff anything else last comments um the only other thing is uh next month U the an item that was heard at the October meeting on Northwest 39th Street reverse angle parking will come back for hearing again I thought that was supposed to be this month but well we said three months but then we added a month so data could get done and get ready and then presented so we gave three months to to to get data then present okay anything else for the traffic Transportation Commission all right we're adjourned